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Front Page Articles => Feature Article Topic Suggestion => Topic started by: Rob on January 11, 2010, 02:18:01 AM
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Anyone in here a grand wizard of Tablet using?
I know there are program and version and even tablet disparities. But the most common in my opinion is Photoshop with a Wacom tablet.
I know there is software that comes with it. I even know where the controls are in my control panel. I still don't think I'm doing it right.
Also, I'm certain that I don't have my version of Photoshop (CS2 but honestly I don't think it has changed THAT much and you can note differences in versions... assuming you have access to them and if you don't have CS2 I can confirm or deny any procedural questions you might have) "Optimized" for tablet use and smooth drawing.
I'd love to see an article that covers the basics of setting up a tablet on a computer and optimizing both the tablet setting and the Photoshop settings for basic use. I realize that with all the different custom brushes and playing with hardness and all that that there are a million different ways to go. I'm looking for someone to give us a really great starting point.
So anyone think they are good enough to write this?
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I only have experience with wacom tablets - notably the graphire and intuos series, and I'd probably need to reactivate my tablet just to remember everything, but I think I could actually write a decent article or tutorial on using a tablet with photoshop. I can definitely provide some helpful tips for making and using brushes - which are a super-useful and stylish part of the program if someone else wants to make the rest of the article, either way.
Or perhaps that would make a decent stand-alone article.
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Yeah I was thinking a tutorial on brushes would be great because after years of using Photoshop and over two years in possession of an Intuous 3 I finally figured out how to make my own brushes about three weeks ago. I was just sitting here and thinking about screen capturing the process and running it through Premier Pro so I could easily add on screen text and directions.
But I doubt I got all of that lesson and aren't really the right guy, with my three weeks experience, to do the tut (tut is what we call tutorials over at the 3D forum I spend time on).
But the fact that I do know how to make them, even if I don't understand a lot of the features, meant that I was more interested personally in getting my tablet set up properly. But I'm sure either tutorial would be useful to many others.
I was just hoping for the one I suggested. ;)
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I work on a tablet all the time, I could do it.
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I find that the quality your tablet outputs directly corresponds to your computer. I have a Wacom Graphire 3, and was using it on a 5-year-old PC with a gig of ram and a decent videocard running Windows XP. The results were fantastic. Then my desktop died, so I invested in a laptop with 2 gigs of ram and a better video card, and the results were never quite the same. It seemed like no matter how many times I re-installed or updated the drivers and software, the lines were jittery and the pressure sensitivity was really spotty. I thought the problem was my tablet, so I went out and bought a bamboo (it was all I could afford at the time) and found that it was having the same problems. I think one of the main issues there was that it was getting interrupted by the laptop's touch pad, and their drivers seemed to interfere with each other a lot.
Now I'm using my graphire 3 on a brand new PC with 4gigs of ram, and an awesome videocard, running on wndows 7 and everything is working as it should be, and even a little better than what I remember.
So I guess what I'm trying to say is that the way your tablet works depends on a lot of little things, and some of those things are issues that can't be helped no matter how many tutorials you read. What kind of setup are you running?
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I have a custom machine for my hobbies.
Intel Pentium 4 duo 3.0 ghz
3 gigs of ram
almost a terabyte of storage space
An AIT all in wonder dual monitor video card
delta 1010 8 input 8 output sound card with midi and breakout box
Pyro A/V link
Firewire card,
DVD-RW
56X CD-Rom
Windows XP Pro
Wacom Intuous 3 Tablet
CS2 Suite
The computer was nearly top of the line when I built it five years ago (There was only one intel chip faster available at the time). It's still pretty good.
But right now, even though I can use my tablet fine I can't seem to get any of the buttons to work and it only sizes up and down with the sliders when it feels like it. So I'm relatively sure it isn't set up to work with Photoshop right. I'm also very interested in any tips on getting rid of line wiggle and I think a good set up tut might help that. But what do I know? If I know for sure a tut would help I would probably know what to do already. ;)
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Fair enough! I'll see what I can cook up, though my wacom isn't particularly new. Hmm.
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I use a WACOM Graphire 3 and I primarily pencil ink (If I'm doing it digitally) in Paint Tool Sai.
Sai's interpretation of line and very cool, bezier editable pen tool are just second to none.
I still use Photoshop for colors. It's extremely versatile, a lot more so than most other graphics packages.
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Okay, I'm almost done with a brush article!
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I just recently decided to get a tablet, so I went down to Best Buy and bought a Bamboo. The other ones were more expensive, but they just had shortcut buttons or were slightly bigger, so I didn't see the point. Although they might have also been Bamboo. Now I'm pretty confused about what the differences between tablet brands are supposed to be. I got mine because I needed to be able to draw lines on my computer with more control than I had just using a mouse. So I have a tablet, and a pen that works like a mouse on the computer when it hovers over the tablet or touches it. Could someone explain how a tablet could be any different (better?) than that, other than being bigger or having extra buttons that you don't necessarily need if you're just worried about line quality?
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I just recently decided to get a tablet, so I went down to Best Buy and bought a Bamboo. The other ones were more expensive, but they just had shortcut buttons or were slightly bigger, so I didn't see the point. Although they might have also been Bamboo. Now I'm pretty confused about what the differences between tablet brands are supposed to be. I got mine because I needed to be able to draw lines on my computer with more control than I had just using a mouse. So I have a tablet, and a pen that works like a mouse on the computer when it hovers over the tablet or touches it. Could someone explain how a tablet could be any different (better?) than that, other than being bigger or having extra buttons that you don't necessarily need if you're just worried about line quality?
A bamboo, if I recall correctly, does more or less what the other tablets do. I think they're just smaller and lower resolution. Again, don't remember much about bamboos, just from looking over my friend's shoulder, I think they don't have angle sensitivity, and they are definitely lower resolution. They do have a lot of little fun functions for interacting with menus and stuff, though.
Basically, most of the graphires have kinda cheapy plastic-feeling surfaces and pens, but are pretty good quality in reception. They also come wireless.
The Intuos is basically the flagship of the non-screen tablets. It's the most expensive, but the medium and large versions have programmable LED displays, and they all have great reception, resolution, and they're textured to feel like pen on paper - they even come with nubs for the pen that can make it feel like marker or pencil or what have you. Of course, they're also the most expensive of their kind on the market, as far I know.
The Cintiqs are the insanely expensive screen/tablets. They highly intuitive, but honestly they're not my favorite kind of tablet - in order to get the reception area in front of the screen they had to make it a little less receptive. It's also in front of the screen, and not on it - that is to say, there's a slight disparity between where you're touching and where it shows up if you look at it from an angle.
I've tried a couple non-wacom tablets out there, but all of them either sucked or required batteries in the pen or something silly like that. Nonetheless, you can do the same level of art with *any* tablet.
Edit: Jeeze that's a good basis for an article right there XD
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Edit: Jeeze that's a good basis for an article right there XD
Yep and I think Ran is on it. ;)
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What you really would need is a section for Photoshop Tips that would contain multiple threads covering a broad range of topics. Sketching, inking, coloring, layers, channels, balloons and text, scanning, DPI, tablets, and so on.
There is just too much Photoshop stuff to expect a few submitted articles to cover it all. It deserves it own area.
DIGITAL
...Photoshop
...Illustrator
...Manga Studios
...Flash
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There are better forums for that. I think the community will ask for what it wants. If we end up with ton's of Photoshop tips then there may be a place for a section like that. Until then though the search function will have to suffice. It's just too soon to start making extra categories like that.
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I bought a Wacom Bamboo tablet and I am completely frustrated by it, I just cannot get the hang of the damned thing. I feel like it could completely change my process if I could just get good at it, but everytime I use it I get so frustrated.
Did that happen to anyone else that is now a tablet samurai. Is this a case of practice makes perfect, or do I need a better quality tablet, maybe a monitor tablet, or do some people just inhrently suck with a tablet?
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I bought a Wacom Bamboo tablet and I am completely frustrated by it, I just cannot get the hang of the damned thing. I feel like it could completely change my process if I could just get good at it, but everytime I use it I get so frustrated.
Did that happen to anyone else that is now a tablet samurai. Is this a case of practice makes perfect, or do I need a better quality tablet, maybe a monitor tablet, or do some people just inhrently suck with a tablet?
I would love to help, but you haven't described what you're actually having trouble with yet ???
Um, tablets do definitely take some practice. It also takes some learning in a technical sense - there are a few techniques that are helpful. What are you getting frustrated with?
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The single most frustrating thing is the placement of the cursor. I've tried setting it up proportionate to the screen and the other way, where it's like a mouse cursor, it just is where it is. I just cannot get used to it. My lines come out wobbly or stuttered, so maybe I'm just not being fluid enough in my strokes, but I can't get used to that either.
It feels like the kind of thing that takes practice to get good at, but at the same time it feels like the kind of thing that may just require better equipment.
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I get really wobbly lines when I draw on my much more expensive Intuous 3 so I'm not sure better equipment will help. I think the article we have coming up about brush settings might help you a bit so stay tuned for that. As far as practice... when I first started using it there was a disconnect between what I was doing with my hand and what was appearing on the screen that I still struggle to get over. Sometimes messing with the orientation of the tablet helps a little but it's still something I have difficulty with. The more I use it the less it rears it's ugly head but it usually comes back almost as strong when I don't use it for a few days.
I think if you don't use it all the time that's probably the way it will always be. :-\
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I'm open to practice more. I guess I just wanted to hear that someone else started out wonky but came out comfortable over time.
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The single most frustrating thing is the placement of the cursor. I've tried setting it up proportionate to the screen and the other way, where it's like a mouse cursor, it just is where it is. I just cannot get used to it. My lines come out wobbly or stuttered, so maybe I'm just not being fluid enough in my strokes, but I can't get used to that either.
It feels like the kind of thing that takes practice to get good at, but at the same time it feels like the kind of thing that may just require better equipment.
Better equipment probably won't help. Most people have this problem working with a tablet early on. I actually talked about this a tiny bit in my article, but there's no sense in withholding information: First off, you want to use the pen mode - or the 'proportional to the screen' thing you were talking about. Second, you probably want to work zoomed in about 2x - you can zoom in even further if you're still having problems. Third, you do have to be fluid in your strokes - just move swiftly and the lines should be less wobbly. Zoomed in *and* moving your hand fast should make the lines pretty smooth. Of course, they'll be harder to control too. That's where practice makes perfect. I'm no good at controlling the lines right now, really. I always do a sloppy sketch layer and draw right over that, and even then I've just gotten to the point where I have 'Undo' bound to the tablet and I end up using it probably every other stroke. Really hope I get passed that some day... Er, but yeah, I hope that helps.
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I bought a Wacom Bamboo tablet and I am completely frustrated by it, I just cannot get the hang of the damned thing. I feel like it could completely change my process if I could just get good at it, but everytime I use it I get so frustrated.
Did that happen to anyone else that is now a tablet samurai. Is this a case of practice makes perfect, or do I need a better quality tablet, maybe a monitor tablet, or do some people just inhrently suck with a tablet?
I don't think that very many people at all sit down with a WACOM for the first time and take to it like a duck to water. If you're not good with the tablet yet, it's just that simple. You're not good with the tablet yet.
It's an acquired skill. Keep at it and in the meantime brush up on pen/paper drawing.
What program(s) are you using, Noah?
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Noah, the Bamboo tablet is the easiest one of all. I think it's you man. :o
JK. Of course like any thing else different people learn it at different rates. That said, I think there is a big learning curve no matter what, because of the disconnect from not looking where you are drawing. I have the Bamboo and one of the biggest problems I have is the tiny drawing area. I'm used to moving my whole arm to draw, not just my wrist.
If you really want to get good at it, then just keep going. Later on if you get a bigger/better tablet then you'll be that much further along already.
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Thanks for the input and encouragement, guys. I've been hesitant to devote time to the tablet if it was going to just continue to frustrate me, but if my beginning pains are felt by everyone else then I'll move forward. I use Photoshop for my strip and Illustrator for my animations... but those are drawn by mouse as a rule. I'd be using the tablet with Photoshop.
"I always do a sloppy sketch layer and draw right over that, and even then I've just gotten to the point where I have 'Undo' bound to the tablet and I end up using it probably every other stroke."
When I watch Gabe make Penny-Arcade he seems to be doing this the entire time. Rough sketch then he'll do a finishing pen stroke but he's constantly undoing his strokes until he has it just right. I can't even make a rough sketch, that's how completely flabbergasted I am with this tablet. I'm far from a slouch with a piece of paper, but I think I'll get a cleaner look if I can ink my strips in Photoshop.
Thanks again for the feedback. Consider my question way answered.
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Wait, wait! I wanted to say something!
Okay, so as I said I only recently got my tablet, and I was a bit dissapointed with it at first. I found it difficult to draw anything with it from scratch. But I do believe that it gets easier with practice, as I'm sure I'm already better than when I first got it. So what I did was do a sort of halfway transition from pencil/pen and paper to tablet and computer. For my current storyline, I'm still sketching out my comic pages by hand in pencil. But then instead of inking them, I scan them in as is, and use that as the "sketch layer" for my comic. Because while drawing from scratch with the tablet is difficult, tracing over a sketch layer is remarkably easier. By my next storyline, I think I'll be able to do it all on the computer, but I find it a good way to develop skills without the quality of the comic suffering.
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Here's a trick that helped me get used to a tablet: put some of whatever paper you use on it and draw the borders on it with a pencil. Keep it at the same spot. It's so much easier to draw on when it feels familiar. The problem is that sometimes it'll have more difficulty picking up the movement, depending on the thickness of your paper.
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I see you are having problems with tablets, especially with the lineart. I hated inking with tablet too (redoing lines till they looked right while also being careful with the pressure and stuff). I thought I just need to practice because I only have my tablet since Christmas, but then I found this little wonder called Paint Tool SAI.
It is a software on par with Photoshop, and the best part is you can do special ,,Linework" layers which automatically adjusts your lines to look clear and smooth, and you can drag the curves around by dots (much like with vector graphics) to fix mistakes. You could even just draw a lot of random lines and put up a drawing just from those. It's also able to read and write .psd format so going back and forth between SAI and Photoshop is easy. So, everyone who is having problems with doing lineart or find it long and stressful to be procedure, try it out.
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I have a question that I've wondered about for awhile and maybe Ran or Nuke can give me some insight.
When I bought my Intuos 3 it came with 4 white tips that look the same, 1 that is black with a similar shape and 1 that is grayish that is more flexible. All 3 kinds seem to have the same general shape.
I also understand there are a bunch of different tips that can be bought as extras.
So my question is, what is best for what? As far as tips go I mean. Because there doesn't seem to be any guidance in the literature that came with the tablet. And I basically stuck in one of the 4 white ones and have never changed it (or tried the others).
Anyone have a link that explains this stuff or some guidance? ???
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Here ya go.
http://forum.tabletpcreview.com/showthread.php?p=172051
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Thanks man, that's really helpful. ;)
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As far as I know, Gabe uses a Cintiq, so he's drawing directly on the screen. I picked up one of the older Cintiq models off eBay for about €300 a couple of weeks ago (The new ones are in the €2,000 range over here), and it's fantastic. It's only got a 1024x768 screen, but the whole 'not looking at your hand' disconnect is completely abolished. It's got a 15" screen, so it's about the same size as standard copier paper, which was what I was using before. It's basically my most fun toy (I've got a PS3, but not a sex swing).
I have noticed that it really rewards quick pen strokes. Doing a quick slash with the default brush gives a nice smooth controlled-looking line, and I guess practising up on that will ultimately lead to better-looking comics with a shorter production time (I currently draw lots of little lines to make a big line. Since getting the Wacom I've moved the 'undo' function in photoshop up to allow for the last 220 moves).
For the non-screeny kind of tablets, the sticking-a-bit-of-paper-over-it thing sounds like a good idea to get the right texture under your hand. Also I can see the benefit of not having your view of what you're drawing obstructed by your hand once you get used to it.
I do have a tablet-related question: How do I use the 'rotate view' tool in Photoshop? There's a button for it at the top of the window, but it keeps telling me I can't use it. Do you need to be drawing in a particular file format?
[Edit: I looked it up. Go to Preferences -> Performance and enable OpenGL drawing. It's not in all versions of photoshop, but it lets you rotate the view of the page without altering the pixels you've drawn, which is handy.]
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Gar, this is exactly the kind of review I was looking for. It sounds to me like it's better to put your money into a monitor tablet rather than the Bamboo. thanks for the input, man!
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As far as I know, Gabe uses a Cintiq, so he's drawing directly on the screen.
He does not. The PAX DVDs and PATV episodes show him clearly using a very large Intuos tablet. It seems to be that he just prefers it that way.
Jeph from QC, Kurtz from PvP, and Gallagher from MT all use 21UX Cintiqs, AFAIK.
I picked up one of the older Cintiq models off eBay for about €300 a couple of weeks ago (The new ones are in the €2,000 range over here), and it's fantastic. It's only got a 1024x768 screen, but the whole 'not looking at your hand' disconnect is completely abolished. It's got a 15" screen, so it's about the same size as standard copier paper, which was what I was using before. It's basically my most fun toy (I've got a PS3, but not a sex swing).
I have noticed that it really rewards quick pen strokes. Doing a quick slash with the default brush gives a nice smooth controlled-looking line, and I guess practising up on that will ultimately lead to better-looking comics with a shorter production time (I currently draw lots of little lines to make a big line. Since getting the Wacom I've moved the 'undo' function in photoshop up to allow for the last 220 moves).
I find that interesting. I have a 21UX that I got a month ago, and have found I can actually draw much slower and get good, interesting, detailed lines than when I was using my Intuos 3.
In any event, the Cintiq I have now is pretty darn awesome. I'd be really sad if I had to go back to an Intuos (if for no other reason than I can work at a lesser zoom ratio, so I can see more of my artwork when I work on it, and there's zero need to mess with matching up the tablet and screen proportions).
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I find that interesting. I have a 21UX that I got a month ago, and have found I can actually draw much slower and get good, interesting, detailed lines than when I was using my Intuos 3.
In any event, the Cintiq I have now is pretty darn awesome. I'd be really sad if I had to go back to an Intuos (if for no other reason than I can work at a lesser zoom ratio, so I can see more of my artwork when I work on it, and there's zero need to mess with matching up the tablet and screen proportions).
Hmmm, could be just the older Wacoms in general reward quicker line strokes. I can still get a good line drawing slowly and deliberately, it's just that it picks up little hand jitters that don't occur in quick movements. Could be the newer models have an inbuilt function to correct for that, possibly something as simple as a slightly more flexible pen tip.
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I havn't read all three pages so if I am re hashing please forgive me. I have a little jitter in my lines when I use the Intos Tablet in Photoshop but when I reduce the DPI from 300 to 72 it is not as noticeable. I have been experimenting a little with illustrator and it makes amazing lines but sometimes it makes lines I didn't draw. But they are not jittery! Sometines I do curly hair and want the jitter but Illustrator wont let me! The monitor tablet is still my secret lust... someday.
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I havn't read all three pages so if I am re hashing please forgive me. I have a little jitter in my lines when I use the Intos Tablet in Photoshop but when I reduce the DPI from 300 to 72 it is not as noticeable. I have been experimenting a little with illustrator and it makes amazing lines but sometimes it makes lines I didn't draw. But they are not jittery! Sometines I do curly hair and want the jitter but Illustrator wont let me! The monitor tablet is still my secret lust... someday.
If you double-click the pencil/brush and bring smoothness to 0, it should correct the jitter issue.
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If you double-click the pencil/brush and bring smoothness to 0, it should correct the jitter issue.
Thank You I will try that!
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Keep in mind, too, that with the Wacoms in general, the further out you're zoomed in Photoshop (and Illustrator, IIRC), the less control you have over brush stroke detail. When I was working at 300dpi, I'd zoom in about 200% and get some real good stroke quality, but you have to make sure to zoom out on a regular basis to make sure the overall composition of the work is looking good. I'll again refer you to the PAX DVDs where you can watch Gabe do a strip using an Intuos and Photoshop in real time to see how he goes it. Not to say that you have to do it the same way, but it's a good reference.
Plus, the PAX09 DVD set is just cool. ;D
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It seems I'm in a solid minority in this, but the only thing I don't use my tablet for is drawing. Since I still work with pencil and ink, I've no need, but I do use my tablet for everyday function instead of a mouse. I've never understood why everyone with a tablet doesn't do the same, if for no other reason than it's easier on your wrist.
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It seems I'm in a solid minority in this, but the only thing I don't use my tablet for is drawing. Since I still work with pencil and ink, I've no need, but I do use my tablet for everyday function instead of a mouse. I've never understood why everyone with a tablet doesn't do the same, if for no other reason than it's easier on your wrist.
I'm so much faster using a mouse with 5 buttons+scroll and a limited tablet area than I am with a pen, even on my Cintiq, it's not even a remotely close comparison.