Problematic fans

[Gibson]

Pictures of You has a loyal readership...sometimes frighteningly loyal...and some of the audience can get a little, let's say absorbed by it. One example is the guy who posts several comments a day about how PoY is doing on the webcomic lists. In another case, one of my readers decided to move to another country and he cites the comic as his biggest motivator. Now, these two aren't problems, I love these guys, but it illustrates a certain tendency to going over the top.

Then I have another reader (or had, he may not bother reading anymore) with whom I've had issues pretty much since he started posting. I won't name him, though anyone who reads the comments on PoY can probably guess who it is. It isn't that he manages to point out something vitally wrong with every page I post, I can deal with that. It isn't that he makes wild (and infallibly erroneous) predictions about the future of the comic while not being quite able to remember the characters' names. It isn't that his posts are almost always several paragraphs long including links to other pages that he is convinced support his wild claims.

What's the problem? He seems to think he's in charge.

With the full weight of authorship, he argues with other readers about what happens in the story, has even argued with me about it, and overpowers everyone else with sheer word count. He's posted as many as five times on a single page, and each time is in refutation of another commenter, even when that reader is posting what is clearly a joke. He writes about things that HAVE to happen in the story and sends shame at me when I depict imagery he doesn't like. He's berated my guest artists for not having the same style as I do. He has also told me that I shouldn't be proud of what I've accomplished with Pictures of You because, I swear to god, the story was influenced by other people...which isn't so much of a problem but, I mean, what the hell? I'd expect something like that from someone who didn't like my work, but this cat claims to think PoY's one of the best things on the internet.

I've tried, subtly at first and more forceful over time, to tell him to back off. I've asked him nicely to stop posting such long comments so often, mostly because it's intimidating to new readers and/or old readers who don't want to post for fear that he'll berate them. Recently I've told him as blatantly as I could without losing my cool, to stop. In all cases, he responded that he wouldn't and that it was essentially tough shit for me. Well, a couple days ago, after reading a post in which he admonishes a first time poster for making their post too long and accused me of being a shameful smut-peddler, I'd had enough. Smack Jeeves has a wonderful feature that lets authors ban abusive posters...or any other kind of commenter, I suppose. You can delete a post, delete all that person's posts and/or ban them from ever commenting again. Great little system. I used it. I don't regret it.

What I do regret is that it got to the point that it did. I've wanted to ban him for a long time, others have encouraged me to do so as well, but I didn't because I was worried about the precedent it would set in my head. The first time you do something, it becomes easier to do it a second time. I didn't want to ban anyone from speaking their mind, and I know this won't be the last time I deal with a problematic fan. The more popular the comic gets, the more they'll show up. Looking back at it, though, I'm not sure what I could have done differently.

I guess the question goes out, has anyone dealt with problematic fans, and if so, how?

[mcfadyn]

Sorry to hear all the shit, Gibson.  For the most part, Louder than Bomb fans are all super great to us.  We've never had an issue like things you're talking about.  I figure that since, he obviously loves the comic, he wanted to take it a step further and get involved as much as he could.  Since he obviously can't do the comic himself, ranting and talking about it incessantly is the only way that the guy can feel he's involved with the comic.  I can understand how he would like to guess how the story is to progress, hell I do that sometimes, but harassment just isn't the way to go man.  We at LtB Inc. don't really have that issue since we're not really story driven.  I'm not even sure if you would call us a journal comic, in alot of ways we are and alot of ways were not.  But getting back to that dude... yeah just ignore the guy.  At worst it's just a fan you don't acknowledge and he can yell at the walls for all you care right?

[Gar]

Back when NtK was popular (before the extended hiatus) there was a problem poster in the forum who basically came in to abuse the other posters.

I nicknamed her the Hate Fairy, changed that to her title, and basically started cheering for her until the board sentiment towards her went from annoyance to bemusement. I tried my hardest to make it impossible for people to take her seriously, and it worked.

She actually started posting normally for a while before she stopped visiting the forum.

[Funderbunk]

I don't have any experience with it myself considering I don't have my own webcomic, but I have noticed that it's best for a webcomic author not go and actually argue with this type of person. I've seen a couple webcomic artists do this, and it usually ends up with them seeming less sympathetic and/or less in control, despite whether they were in the right or not. I think it's because it's your comic, it makes you sort of the authority figure, but that view falls apart when you "get dragged down to their level", for lack of a better way of saying it. For things like this, it's best to either go with Gar's approach (encourage people not to take the poster seriously using a positive* way) or, alternatively, actually BE that authority figure and issue official warnings, have a rule like "so many warnings and you're banned" clearly stated somewhere. And these warnings shouldn't contain big explanations, just "warning for abuse" or something.

But seriously, DON'T argue. Especially not in a public forum or comments sections. This not only encourages them to let themselves get their panties in an even bigger twist, but it also doesn't look professional. It's Scott Kurtz' tendency to do these things that often makes him seem a lot more unprofessional, and is probably the leading cause for most of his detractors.

*Well, not exactly positive, but I hope you get what I mean. Sometimes I am forcefully reminded that English is not my first language because I can't find the proper words. ^^

[JGray]

Got to agree. Do not engage. Ask your readers not to engage and, if needed, ban.

Keep in mind that if you ban, this reader'll likely go and badmouth you elsewhere.

If you get obsessive emails? Keep them. Seriously. While Misery was an extreme scenario, there's a reason King wrote it. There are obsessive, dangerous people out there.

[Nuke]

I'd also agree. And don't hesitate to bring out the ban stick if you think he's harassing other posters - his readership is probably not worth theirs.

[Rob]

Gar, that is hilarious. And quite valuable as well. Great idea.

Gib. Randy Milholland of Something*Positive seems to be the guy who deals with the most "troubled" readers that I know of. He's got a lot of very funny stories involving... let's say readers who are "a bit off."

I've heard Randy complain about the type to reader who claims to "love" hos work and then proceeds to complain about it at length.

I just saw him Twitter yesterday something along the lines of "I don't normally try and lose readers but I jutst gave one a golden ticket to fuckoff-ville."

Tarol Hunt of Goblins likes to engage the trolls that wander into his UStream shows. He hasn't got anonymous accounts blocked for chat so every so often some troll wanders in and starts some shit with him and he always engages. His fans look forward to it (no not just me although I will admit I do find it amusing) and some of the trolls have actually become ardent watchers of his UStream after they learn to behave themselves. There's one kid who calls himself Satan that has wandered into Lar deSouza's Ustream show and Tarol's. Lar banned him, Tarol taunted him. Now the kid stops by to watch Tarol fairly regularly and it is somewhat well behaved.

It always makes me chuckle though because there is almost no way to win a text to speech flame war. If you are in the chat room trying to troll someone who can simply speak about ten times the amount of words you can type in the same amount of time there's very little chance you are going to get any satisfaction from the trolling. I wouldn't call Tarol a master debater but he can be pretty fun when dealing with these problem children.

Having not had to deal with the issue myself I can't say how I would handle it. I like Gar's idea. But if he becomes too much trouble and I am busy dealing with fans who aren't an albatross I'd probably give him a Golden Ticket like Randy did at some point.

[mcfadyn]

I guess we've all seen these elusive hate-fairies around.  They are generally a vengeful folk who stay hidden from sight all the while complaining that poeple don't notice them.  If you look REALLY closely at the internet, almost in the way you would a 'magic eye', you may catch a glimpse of one of these gorgeous creatures.  If you DO finally get to see one, don't approach it.  Approaching only startles the trollin' beast and will set off a tirade of what anthropologists have termed 'hate-song'.  The indigenous speakers of hate-song tend to yell into the darkness hoping that, for once, the darkness would yell back.  Alas... it never does.   

[Gibson]

Definitely, I knew better than to get into any kind of public back and forth with him. One thing I've done with my readers is be, as much as I can be, specific with praise and general with damnation...by which I mean when I have something nice to say to a reader, I say it to them, but when I have something crappy to say to someone, I make it more "to whom it may concern" and let them look like idiots if they get defensive or try to argue.

I traded an email or two (which I have kept, though he is in Europe and I am not) with this cat, but even then it wasn't argument. Anything public was in the "please stay off the lawn" variety, and I did my best to be non-specific towards him. Now and then, I would simply delete his comments if I thought they crossed the line, even though I really hate deleting comments, but his posts were so long I stopped reading them all which ended up in some mildly outrageous shit getting by and some other readers tearing him a new asshole. Normally, I would have been all for other people schooling someone like this, but that kind of drama in a comments section doesn't do well to encourage new audiences. For the most part, I did ignore him but that not only failed at detracting him, it made him turn his sites on other readers, which is ultimately why he was banned.

Gar's idea is a good one, though with this particular fan, he never normalized even after a public yet non-specific evisceration. Actually, he got worse because then his posts came often with a snarky little tagline in reference to it. Again, all of this is going on in the comments of my actual comic pages rather than in a forum, where I'd be a little freer to bat him around. I would love nothing more, too, than to let loose the acid-tongue which I've only shown some cleavage on here, but every time I start (which has been often) I realize how much that would intimidate new readers.

The thing is, this guy wasn't a troll, he was genuinely a fan of the comic and would praise as much as he would protest. A troll I can deal with easier than anything, no questions, but this was a regular reader and ostensible supporter of the comic. He voted for my comic on web lists and encouraged others to do the same. He read the comic's archive many times, from the sound of it. That's why dealing with him was so difficult and has left me here, posting this navel-gazing bullshit.

I hesitate to institute rules on how people can post. I want folks to feel free to say whatever they want, but I also want to be able to smack someone down whenever I feel it needs to be done. Plus, having rules opens the floor to people arguing they haven't broken them. In short, I want to be a benevolent dictator and democracy is for assholes.

I don't have any regrets about ousting this guy, if anything I think I should have done it much sooner. My main curiosity at this point is how to handle the next problematic reader. Should I handle it the same way I handled this or should use a firmer hand, throw caution to the wind and throw down some literary justice on their asses?

[mcfadyn]

Fans seem to think you owe them the world.  I'm not exactly sure why.  Sure, when it comes down to it, they ARE your readership and the people that help pay the bills BUT I really don't think that a guy should be running about verbally abusing not just you but your other fans.  They don't come there to be accosted by some dink that's cool with berating you and the others in the forum.  It's sad to have to spank a child, but it seems like this guy needs a fuckin' time out.

[Rob]

I think dealing with problematic fans is a case by case basis kind of thing and I think you have good instincts and should use them. ;)

[Gar]

You could institute a three strikes policy. I'd be pretty lenient with strike one, see if you can appeal to their reason or render them harmless with the healing power of sarcasm. Strike two should follow strike one pretty quickly to show you're serious, then issue a final warning if they're still out of line, and ban them completely if they still refuse to behave. It's probably the easiest and fairest way.