[UPDATED 24Feb PAGE 2 COLOUR] Without Words

[ran]

All right, so I've made reference a couple times on this forum to the fact that I'm working on a comic offline for the next year, with the intention of launching it next new years. I'm doing this for a few reasons--the first being that I intend to do it in full colour, on the computer (I usually use marker), the second being that I've always been kind of ass at building and keeping buffers, and the third is that this year is going to be suuuuper busy for me, and I will not be able to keep a schedule.

This leaves me in a unique and potentially bad situation--there will be no feedback on the art itself, which closes off a potentially valuable way for me to learn and improve.

Since I am trying something very different (comic strips) from what I normally do (long form), and this project has a rather large cast, I worry about one thing--showing rather than just telling, especially where body language and expression are concerned. In other words, I doubt my ability to communicate an idea without the assistance of words. I know that comics are both pictures and words, but I want to make sure that my characters aren't just paper dolls that you'd only know what they were feeling (in general and towards others) if I put a word bubble next to them. On top of that, I'll be using some odd alien imagery, and while some people who have seen my first page seem to get what's going on right away, others have looked at it and said 'I have no idea what that is' to me.

SO. From here on out, I'll be posting pages up here, without words, before I colour them (except the first, it's already coloured. I'll still be posting it, but I won't be changing it)  so that I can make changes and adjustments based on feedback. Any help would be appreciated, and don't feel obligated to help for every page--any and all feedback is valuable. All I need you to do is:

• Tell me what YOU think is going on on the current page--what are characters' (if any) attitudes towards each other? What is going on?
• Point out any glaring errors or awkward anatomy problems.
• Keep in mind that my process means that all uncoloured art is inked, on paper. Changing things are more difficult than they would be if I was using photoshop for my lines.

CLICK ON THE IMAGES FOR A LARGER VERSION.

So, without further ado, CH1 - 01:

Note: I will be making one change for this page. The larger shot of earth needs that atmosphere glow that I just completely forgot.

And CH1 - 02:

Note: Pardon my aliens and their lack of eyes. I'll be adding those in in the coloured version.

[amanda]

That's a really cool idea!  In the first page, I wasn't sure if the ship was ejecting different things or shooting lasers/something else.  The second page cleared that up.  Seems pretty self-explanatory.  The pilot ran into a tree (he's kind of panicky in panel 7, so maybe he missed the rendezvous point and has no idea where they are), and the other guy is irritated at him for either running into a tree or being lost or both.

I like your wheat close-up.

[Rob]

The first comic looks like probes being launched and one of them journeys to Earth (although I wasn't positive it was Earth until I read it in the post). They land in a field. They get out They both have a moment where they are surprised by something about the landscape (I assume it's beauty or perhaps its emptyness) and exclaim the same words.

Then one removes his helmet as the other says something really stupid or fearful and the bolder of the two crowns the other one with his removed helmet.

That's my interpretation.

Beautiful work Ran. Nice job. I'm going to have a tough time waiting a year for this. Good luck.

[ran]

That's pretty much the gist of it--they were set to land in a 'heavily populated area', which a wheat field is not. The senior crew member gets angry and clocks the pilot with his helmet.

Rob: I suppose it could be any planet--I did use a satellite picture of Earth and did some heavy manipulation on it so it suited my colouring style. Earth is a complicated planet from orbit, and I didn't want to risk it looking like a kindergarten interpretation of our planet.

amanda: I actually intended these pages to be four panel strips each, but when I made the first two strips, I realized that I had a big problem--on its own the first 4 panels explained not a hell of a lot, and the last 4 strips fixed that problem. I realized that a bunch of gags and dramatic moments in this character driven comic were going to be based on pacing and sight, and when I thought about it, I decided that 4 panels just wasn't enough to convey that.

Thanks, both of you for taking the time to tell me what you think! Rob--I actually feel like posting pages here as I make them might ruin the comic for people looking at the first, here, but it's a chance I'm willing to take all things considering. At least you'll get a sneak peak?  :-\

[TTallan]

Okay. First, I applaud your efforts in planning. I don't think I could wait a whole year to publish something! Second, your art is lovely.  :)

So, the first episode, I had to study it for a while to figure out what was going on. I guess you're trying to preserve the mystery, which is OK. But I think where you lose me is in panel 6, where you sort of change direction-- instead of moving towards the planet in a downward direction, now we seem to be going sideways. Can you show more of the ground, maybe?

Second episode. I really have no idea what is going on in the first three panels. It's not until I get to the fourth panel that I can see how this episode connects with the first one. The second one is... a  hatch opening? I have no idea what is pictured in the third panel. After that I can see where the story is going, two space travelers in a new land, the one guy is whining about something and the other one smacks him and tells him to suck it up. That's my guess, anyway. :)

[teh hchano]

Only panel I was confused about on the second one was
the first panel, but I assume one it's coloured it will be less
so. The only thing that confused me about it tho was what
look to be hands on the opposite side of the 'hatch' whilst
the guy seems to be inside?

Second one def a hatch opening, third one is a foot stepping
in the grass... and if not then I guess I also dunno LOL.

Seems like a comic this size is gonna be hella challenging. I am
intrigued :]

[ran]

It's not actually a hatch. I probably should have made it more clear, but I didn't want to give away much about the inside of the ship just yet. You'll get a full on view of the cockpit later, but he's actually sitting in a compartment,that, in the circle, has a 3D holographic map/targeting system (will be adding that in in photoshop) and the reason you can see his hands are because the view circle is in the center of one giant...well, steering wheel for lack of a better word. There are slots on the side he's on for you to put your hands through to the other side and hold on with.

I won't lie, technology is not one of the things that I am particularly good at drawing, but I expect to get better as I go. My main concern here was making the cockpit as un-Star Trek-like as possible.

Okay. First, I applaud your efforts in planning. I don't think I could wait a whole year to publish something! Second, your art is lovely.  :)

So, the first episode, I had to study it for a while to figure out what was going on. I guess you're trying to preserve the mystery, which is OK. But I think where you lose me is in panel 6, where you sort of change direction-- instead of moving towards the planet in a downward direction, now we seem to be going sideways. Can you show more of the ground, maybe?

Second episode. I really have no idea what is going on in the first three panels. It's not until I get to the fourth panel that I can see how this episode connects with the first one. The second one is... a  hatch opening? I have no idea what is pictured in the third panel. After that I can see where the story is going, two space travelers in a new land, the one guy is whining about something and the other one smacks him and tells him to suck it up. That's my guess, anyway. :)

Hahah, totally missed your response.  Okay, so in the versions of these pages that actually have text, a narrative is going on that pretty much gives the reader an idea of what is going on if the pictures don't quite do it.

As for the direction change, I meant for the reader to get a sort of spiraling feeling, because that's how the ship is travelling. I could have spent more time having it descend, but felt like devoting more than four panels to something that's supposed to happen rather fast was a bit overkill.

On the second page, the first and second panels contain and signify the end of the narrative from the first page. Since you're not (and not supposed to be) familiar with the alien technology just yet, I don't really mind that people are having trouble figuring out what's going on in them. A lot of time is going to be spent on this ship, and a lot of the characters who will be on the ship are not going to be familiar with it, and they will be asking questions.

But yeah, your guess is just about right. =)

[teh hchano]

Oohhh... lol@'steering wheel'... I can see that now. Don't
worry about it tho, the great thing about sci fi is you can
really just go apeshit with the details on the technology
and it'll look believable LOL

[Yamino]

Hi ran! I've been admiring your artwork since I first saw it on this forum. I'm glad you decided to share some of your teasers with us.  I think it's a good idea, I was fortunate enough to have a webcomics CLASS to show my early Sister Claire concepts to, and I ende dup restarting the comic 4 times till I was happy with it.  Feedback is really essential.  I know you want to keep it under wraps for now, but if you want to get more feedback on anything (artwork/story, etc) I'd be more than happy to help. You can email me or we can chat on AIM/MSN, just PM me if you're interested.

Now, back to the critique.  It took me a while to figure out what was happening in the colored first panels.  After studying it for a while, I realized they were pods popping out of a larger ship- right?  The first and the second panel don't seem to correspond to me.  I can tell one is closer up than the second one, but I can't tell what exactly I zoomed in on, because there's no point of reference.  I know it's hard to change now, and in this case I think it's not such a big deal, but in the future try to keep some very distinctive details as points of reference when you move the "camera" around, so the reader doesn't get lost.

Also, in the last of the top 4 panels, it would be coo if one of those beams of light was a lot more prominent than the others, so we could know that THAT is the one we are following in the next 4 panels.  Again, not really a big deal, but I think it would just add a bit more to the readability.

As hchano said, it's kind of hard to read what the "steering wheel" is. I also thought we were looking through a window from the outside, and the hands confused me.  Maybe next time you use this shot (which I'm sure you will, if it's the pilot seat ;) ) include more of the hands, so we know who they belong to.  Are you planning to color these panels, too? That'll probably help.

Panel 3 of the black and white pages really confused me.  I'm still not really sure what it is.  Just from the context, I assume it's a boot stepping on the ground, with the tree in the background.  If that IS a boot, I would flip that panel horizontally.  The previous panel seemed to imply the door would open facing to the right. It's confusing to have the feet facing the opposite way in the next panel.  Also, if that black shape IS the tree, it doesn't make sense why we should see it, because in the next panel the ship is between them and the tree.  Sorry for nitpicking, I'm just trying to point out what you might not have noticed. =)

The last four panels are gorgeous. I love your black placement, and I especially love the silhouetted shot of them standing beside the ship, it's beautiful. I'd say it's the best panel out of ALL of these so far. ;)

[ran]

Hi ran! I've been admiring your artwork since I first saw it on this forum. I'm glad you decided to share some of your teasers with us.  I think it's a good idea, I was fortunate enough to have a webcomics CLASS to show my early Sister Claire concepts to, and I ende dup restarting the comic 4 times till I was happy with it.  Feedback is really essential.  I know you want to keep it under wraps for now, but if you want to get more feedback on anything (artwork/story, etc) I'd be more than happy to help. You can email me or we can chat on AIM/MSN, just PM me if you're interested.

I don't use aim/msn, but I'm a big fan of google's chat system, and I'm trying to get a handle on google wave. If neither of those things work for you, plain old e-mail is fine. Thank you for the offer, I totally accept! =)

Now, back to the critique.  It took me a while to figure out what was happening in the colored first panels.  After studying it for a while, I realized they were pods popping out of a larger ship- right?  The first and the second panel don't seem to correspond to me.  I can tell one is closer up than the second one, but I can't tell what exactly I zoomed in on, because there's no point of reference.  I know it's hard to change now, and in this case I think it's not such a big deal, but in the future try to keep some very distinctive details as points of reference when you move the "camera" around, so the reader doesn't get lost.

The first and second panels were to show each of the drop chutes powering up. I'm not going to lie, For the first few panels, i wanted people to think 'what am I looking at?', and the response I've been getting shows me that I've succeeded, but also shows me that it's going to be a constant struggle for me--I'm tired of watching sci-fi where aliens walk and talk like people, and have ships that are full of comfortable chairs and flat computer panels. I wanted the tech for this particular race to look, well, alien. As in, does not belong in the environment in which they are found. This means that I can either make things a bit more generic in hopes that people will better understand, or slowly introduce this alien technology to readers. I want to say I want to do the second, but crap, I get the feeling it's going to be an uphill struggle.

Also, in the last of the top 4 panels, it would be coo if one of those beams of light was a lot more prominent than the others, so we could know that THAT is the one we are following in the next 4 panels.  Again, not really a big deal, but I think it would just add a bit more to the readability.

Fair enough. I'll see what I can do--I still have to make a couple additions to that first page.

As hchano said, it's kind of hard to read what the "steering wheel" is. I also thought we were looking through a window from the outside, and the hands confused me.  Maybe next time you use this shot (which I'm sure you will, if it's the pilot seat ;) ) include more of the hands, so we know who they belong to.  Are you planning to color these panels, too? That'll probably help.

Can do. Also, I absolutely plan to colour each and every page. I posted it up in black and white first so that if people were like 'hey, this _______ looks funny' I'd have less trouble changing it than if I went ahead and coloured it like I did the first page, which is going to be a bitch to alter.

Panel 3 of the black and white pages really confused me.  I'm still not really sure what it is.  Just from the context, I assume it's a boot stepping on the ground, with the tree in the background.  If that IS a boot, I would flip that panel horizontally.  The previous panel seemed to imply the door would open facing to the right. It's confusing to have the feet facing the opposite way in the next panel.  Also, if that black shape IS the tree, it doesn't make sense why we should see it, because in the next panel the ship is between them and the tree.  Sorry for nitpicking, I'm just trying to point out what you might not have noticed. =)

It is a boot, but the other part is not a tree--one of the two aliens is wearing a robe-like suit over their boots. If I flip the panel (which i just tried), then they're standing on the wrong side of the hatch. I thought that maybe I could fix this by instead flipping the two scenery panels, the ones with the tree, and that created a host of other problems--it means I also have to flip the last two panels, which will have them standing in the wrong places. I'm gonna try some magic, but I may just and up deciding that they're each wearing each other's pants. Pilot gets the robe, monitor gets the boots. Blah. Messing around with it as I type. Here...



I think it looks a little better, and there's less of a conflicting flow. Maybe. :S

The last four panels are gorgeous. I love your black placement, and I especially love the silhouetted shot of them standing beside the ship, it's beautiful. I'd say it's the best panel out of ALL of these so far. ;)

Thanks =) I used to do a lot of black and white art, but fell out of touch with it a while back. I'm not even really sure why. So now that I'm working on a comic and actually inking it, I'm using brush pens, which I'm more comfortable with than a tablet. I'm going to try and make an effort to try out inking techniques that I normally wouldn't use, from here on out.

[KidGalactus]

Hey Ran,

I really, REALLY like these drawings. I'd suggest, however maybe pulling the camera out a bit for some of your shots on the second page . Close-ups are a really powerful kind of short hand for tension and gravity, through their use our attention is literally locked on something that we can't look away from. But when most things are close-in and you have a scene change or two, the page as a whole can seem kind of disparate.

A really unified color palette I guess could alleviate this as well, but I'd consider it cheating  :P

[ran]

Hey Ran,

I really, REALLY like these drawings. I'd suggest, however maybe pulling the camera out a bit for some of your shots on the second page . Close-ups are a really powerful kind of short hand for tension and gravity, through their use our attention is literally locked on something that we can't look away from. But when most things are close-in and you have a scene change or two, the page as a whole can seem kind of disparate.

A really unified color palette I guess could alleviate this as well, but I'd consider it cheating  :P

I'm going to try and 'pull the camera out a bit' on a couple panels later tonight, but at the same time, it's going to be very difficult. The reason I draw and ink traditionally is because, even though I've owned and frequently used a tablet for about ten years now, my computer line art is mediocre. I just can't get the same effect in photoshop as I can with a brush pen, and it absolutely shows. Depending on how awful it looks, this might end up being one of those lessons I learn and put towards future pages, rather than the one it was pointed out on. :S

[KidGalactus]

this might end up being one of those lessons I learn and put towards future pages, rather than the one it was pointed out on. :S

Fair enough  :)

[ran]

EDIT: I just realized that the clouds on page one and 2 look completely different textures. I used a brush for page one and painted them myself on page 2. While the brushes look nicer, they look like I just swiped a photograph. They look out of place. However, the clouds on page 2 aren't as nice. I'm not sure which one I should change to match. Suggestions welcome.

Okay, so I made a few changes to page 1 so that they transitioned into each other a bit better. In page 1 panel 4 I added an atmospheric glow to the earth, because I forgot the first time around, and in page 1 panel 8 I made the sky as they got to a reasonable altitude one that is transitioning into a sunset, so it matches up better with how I envisioned page 2.

For page 2, panel 3, I took out the little step that leads up into the ship--no matter how I looked at it, it was on the wrong side. In the next panel, i switched who was standing where, and in the last panel, I removed the corner of the ship that I put in there on my first edit, because, again, it was on the wrong side, and it looked awkward no matter where I moved it.

While doing this page, I found a few neat tricks that really sped up the process. I also found a really awesome way to do neat looking sound effects, so I decided to leave those words in, in case anyone has any tips for me about them. I'm also hopping that the aliens are a bit more expressive--they communicate in a way that doesn't involve mouths, so I figured that their eyes ought to be pretty expressive instead.

Thoughts? Issues? Let me know! I've condensed the changed page 1 and coloured page 2 into the same image below. Click on it for a larger view.

[Alectric]

I like the clouds on page 1 better.  On page 2 it looks as though the sky was literally painted with clouds.  Unless that's something you're going for.  I guess it all depends on whether you intend for the art to be realistic of stylistic.

The sound effect looks good, but it does make the comic look a bit more...comical.  Whether you want that sort of tone is, again, up to you.

You do a good job with the eyes, especially on that last panel.  I'm a bit confused about their communication, though.  Are the speech bubbles meant to be blackened out, or is that just for here, to prevent spoilers?  They look too small to hold actual text, though.  If they don't communicate with their mouths, then I assume they do it with their minds?  Either way, having the speech bubbles shaped the way you normally see them for regular speech is confusing.  I'd recommend changing the way they're shaped, or otherwise presented.