Zuda Comics

[mwytrykus]

Topic for discussion (and potential Pandora's Box): Zuda Comics

Its pros, its cons, general thoughts & concerns about it, and whether or not you'd submit to it.

I'll start.

Pros: They pay you if your submission makes it into the competition and a page rate if it goes to series. Larger marketing resources, especially when it comes to print collections.

Cons: Sharing your IP with a large corporation. Possible other sticky legal issues if the whole thing goes south.

General thoughts: I like the Zuda Viewer in theory, but not in execution. Flash is not the best way to go here. It's slow and a tad cumbersome.

Would I submit to it: I would never submit Grimstone, but I would submit another project. I've been contemplating ideas for something I could do that would be the equivalent of a comic book mini series or graphic novel. I am also considering submitting the project my friend and I have been developing.

Your turn.

[Rob]

I would never submit to it. It offends my principles to give up any control over my IP. But that's just me. ;)

[LegendWoodsman]

Pros: They pay you if your submission makes it into the competition and a page rate if it goes to series. Larger marketing resources, especially when it comes to print collections.

Another pro is that the page rate is higher than if you were starting out working on a comic book.

I heard a rumor that the marketing resources are only when it goes to print. You have to maintain a high level of self-promotion to make your zuda entry popular enough to move to print. Otherwise the contract just runs out and a new session of talent submissions come in.

I would not submit a comic to zuda. I don't recognize the benefits as being all that beneficial to me. Especially regarding the IP.

[JGray]

The only marketing I've seen for Zuda comics are PW ads (quite possibly done by the creators and not DC) and advertisements in DC comics (which doesn't cost DC anything but ad space they possibly couldn't sell anyway). A quick check of Amazon only shows me two zuda books in print.

So... I dunno. I don't mind the idea of creating something for a comic company but Zuda strikes me as IP farming. Certainly, if DC or Marvel or whoever were to offer me a shot at writing a comic I'd jump for it and, quite possibly, I'd make up new characters they'd then own... but giving them my entire world seems a bit much.

[GaborBoth]

I dislike Zuda mainly because it's format. 16 or so pages, often less, aren't enough to enjoy a story, just shorties where the ,,very cool" main heroes can say ,,very cool" lines and maybe fight some, and good graphics. What's on the outside. Two winners were exactly this: A pink, gross bunny who was ,,very cool" and said ,,very cool" lines and gore, chopped up people out of revenge for something not mentioned at all, the other winner, the oh-so-praised High Moon, had a typical badass hero (black coat, Wolverine-like face) and started fighting monsters and saying cool the lines. It was an unoriginal hero in the age old and famous Deadland setting (Western+Horror was NOT invented here, no matter what people said.) Both are the same, both were winners. Only that wins what's on the outside, deeper, emotional comics with good and embracing storylines are never going to win there. In my opinion, Zuda comics are shallow, very shallow.

[mwytrykus]

See, I don't subscribe to the belief that you should never relinquish your IP. For certain projects, your "baby", I agree keeping your IP is good. Something you've worked that long and hard on you should keep all rights to. But if every artist, and I'm not just talking comics here, decided that they were never going to let a company purchase control of their IP, we would have very few movies and television shows. I understand it's different in comics, where getting the thing made is simpler and doesn't require as many people. But I think the principle is the same.

Not every creator who sold their IP got screwed over (Schulz comes to mind here) and certainly not every creator who kept their IP was better off doing so. And I don't believe Zuda is an IP farm, as they are not buying your IP outright. The rights are shared between the creator and Zuda and can completely revert to the creator after a certain period of time.

It's also not that uncommon in comic books for creators to have both projects that are creator owned and projects that are owned by one of the big publishers. Writers like Brian Michael Bendis, for instance.

I suppose I'm just one of those creators who has so many ideas, not all of which I want to do completely by myself, that I don't mind sharing my IP on some of them if it allows me to earn money that I otherwise would not earn.

[Rob]

If someone hires you with the express intent of creating something new just for them then I guess I could see going along with that and for some folks that's all they need to jump on the Zuda bandwagon.

For me though, the minute you give away control of your IP that is the moment you let someone other than the creator decide whether or not the property gets produced, how and under what circumstances it gets produced and who gets to see whatever gets produced.

I don't like that they can say after an unsuccessful run "ok that's the end, no more of this comic will be made by anyone." and that's that. They should have to maintain support of an IP to control it. So as long as they are paying the creator they can do what they want with it. But once they cancel their support of it the creator can continue on without them... without the worry that after 5 years of breaking his back expanding the universe and building a fan base, the old IP holder can't come back and simply yank the carpet out from under him by making a movie where all his characters get killed or something.

When I think about bad situations with IP the biggest one that comes to mind is "Hero by Night" by DJ Coffman. I really enjoyed that comic and not we will never see it again because the creator got in a  dispute with the IP holder and they walked away from each other. Lame, and everyone loses.

[mwytrykus]

I don't like that they can say after an unsuccessful run "ok that's the end, no more of this comic will be made by anyone." and that's that. They should have to maintain support of an IP to control it. So as long as they are paying the creator they can do what they want with it. But once they cancel their support of it the creator can continue on without them... without the worry that after 5 years of breaking his back expanding the universe and building a fan base, the old IP holder can't come back and simply yank the carpet out from under him by making a movie where all his characters get killed or something.

When I think about bad situations with IP the biggest one that comes to mind is "Hero by Night" by DJ Coffman. I really enjoyed that comic and not we will never see it again because the creator got in a  dispute with the IP holder and they walked away from each other. Lame, and everyone loses.

Zuda submissions remain the property of the creator if they do not go to series. You are free to continue it elsewhere. Those that do go to series, there are provisions in the agreement for the rights to revert back to the creator. It'll take some time, but you can eventually continue it away from Zuda. If it's not making them any money, it's not really in Zuda's best interest to stop you from continuing it. Although I'm not sure why you would want to continue something that was unsuccessful anyway. I really wish we could get someone from Zuda into this discussion, as they could explain particulars of the Zuda deal better than I.

And things are seldom as black and white as you're making them out to be. A lot of what gets talked about in regards to Zuda and the like is worst case scenario stuff. Take DJ and Hero By Night. There is a lot more to that situation than you know.

[Rob]

Well I know more about the Platinum Studios, DJ thing than I mentioned. As far as the Zuda thing goes I only know what I have heard and really that is the problem isn't it?

I would love to go over there and see if anyone on staff is willing to write an article, do a Q&A for us. If there is a way to recover your IP then it is even more attractive.

Although I'm not sure why you would want to continue something that was unsuccessful anyway.

It's my understanding that their run isn't really long enough to fairly say an idea has succeeded or flopped. Some things just take more time to catch fire. If I believed in my IP I do't think a short run where I didn't get enough votes to continue would necessarily convince me to end the comic.

If anyone knows someone who works for Zuda I would love an intro. If I don't hear from anyone I may head over there and send a few messages. See if I can get them interested in participating in some way. :-\

[mwytrykus]

It's my understanding that their run isn't really long enough to fairly say an idea has succeeded or flopped. Some things just take more time to catch fire. If I believed in my IP I do't think a short run where I didn't get enough votes to continue would necessarily convince me to end the comic.

If anyone knows someone who works for Zuda I would love an intro. If I don't hear from anyone I may head over there and send a few messages. See if I can get them interested in participating in some way. :-\

Well, if your major concern is the whole "I did 8 pages, it ran in the competition, it didn't win, so I'd like to continue it elsewhere" thing, then yeah, that's not even an issue. Those comics that make it into the competition, but do not win, are free to continue elsewhere. Hell, Ryan Estrada is turning his Zuda entry into an independently produced animated film: http://www.thekindyoudonttakehometomother.com

I am unaware if any of the comics that did make it past the competition stage to become ongoing series have ended or not.

[Rob]

Yeah there's definitely lot's to learn here.  :-\

[mwytrykus]

I'm all for the independent, do-it-yourself route. It's what I'm doing with Grimstone and what I will continue doing.

I just think Zuda should not be so quickly dismissed as it often is by webcomics creators.

I also think there's a lot of advantages to submitting your comic property to a company that publishes creator-owned books, like Image or SLG, rather than entirely self-publishing. It all depends on the project to me. I don't like limiting myself.

Yeah there's definitely lot's to learn here.  :-\

There's always more to learn. I don't plan on ever stopping.

[KidGalactus]

I dislike Zuda mainly because it's format. 16 or so pages, often less, aren't enough to enjoy a story, just shorties where the ,,very cool" main heroes can say ,,very cool" lines and maybe fight some, and good graphics. What's on the outside. Two winners were exactly this: A pink, gross bunny who was ,,very cool" and said ,,very cool" lines and gore, chopped up people out of revenge for something not mentioned at all, the other winner, the oh-so-praised High Moon, had a typical badass hero (black coat, Wolverine-like face) and started fighting monsters and saying cool the lines. It was an unoriginal hero in the age old and famous Deadland setting (Western+Horror was NOT invented here, no matter what people said.) Both are the same, both were winners. Only that wins what's on the outside, deeper, emotional comics with good and embracing storylines are never going to win there. In my opinion, Zuda comics are shallow, very shallow.

Yes. People typically like entertaining dialog and characters that they find interesting...  :-X

[Doomami]

I dislike Zuda mainly because it's format. 16 or so pages, often less, aren't enough to enjoy a story, just shorties where the ,,very cool" main heroes can say ,,very cool" lines and maybe fight some, and good graphics. What's on the outside. Two winners were exactly this: A pink, gross bunny who was ,,very cool" and said ,,very cool" lines and gore, chopped up people out of revenge for something not mentioned at all, the other winner, the oh-so-praised High Moon, had a typical badass hero (black coat, Wolverine-like face) and started fighting monsters and saying cool the lines. It was an unoriginal hero in the age old and famous Deadland setting (Western+Horror was NOT invented here, no matter what people said.) Both are the same, both were winners. Only that wins what's on the outside, deeper, emotional comics with good and embracing storylines are never going to win there. In my opinion, Zuda comics are shallow, very shallow.

There is a Zuda comic that has done very well for itself called Bayou that pretty much debunks every single gripe you have with Zuda. I highly recommend checking it out before spreading misinformation.

Also, while everyone is free to read whatever they like, it seems insanely absurd to me that comics with cool characters in them can be deemed offensive. That's like being angry at a movie because pretty people are in it.

I myself would gladly try getting a submission into Zuda. I would, of course, think up of something I wouldn't mind submitting to Zuda. Keep your IPs, come up with something new to submit. Good ideas shouldn't be a rare event for anyone here.

[LegendWoodsman]

I like to think of myself as a fair and balanced individual... and yet when it comes to this subject, I feel like I might be too extreme with my point of view.

The part of intellectual property that I feel the most attached to is the idea that I started from scratch. Establishing a protagonist, establishing an antagonist, the origin story, the story arc... that's the stuff that I feel the most entitled to. If a company can help me with a movie deal, or an animated series, or book publishing; they can get a piece of the pie. Not the majority of the pie- but 15% or something (after expenses are covered).

When I hear about the legal battles between Person A and Faceless Corp., I only feel sympathy for Person A. I see all the titles and profits under Faceless Corp.'s banner and I wonder why they are fighting tooth and nail to make sure Person A doesn't see a penny more than what they were paid. Person A was the inventor of the wheel and sliced bread. Person A impacted the way we see society. But Faceless Corp. has investors' interests to look after.

As an artist, I'm eccentric with my thoughts and I lack some of the higher social skills and political deftness that is required to succeed in the world of business. I understand that. I work a 9 to 5 job where my boss wants me to work more and pay me less. I understand that too. My comic is my outlet. It's my risk to attain greater things. I really don't want it tied down to the same structure that I have already achieved with my day job.

Work-for-hire sounds like a more rewarding day job... but it would still be another day job.