Re: Modern art and the prejudice against Comics

[Yamino]

I got so many replies from my last post about this, both here and on my blogs, I decided to write a followup.  However, it's been a week or so since I wrote it, and now I'm already thinking of writing a third part.  Upon reflection, I've rethought some of the things I said about modern art, particularly after talking to some friends of mine who make it.  Here is the post:

Wow, my modern art rant brought out more replies than any blog posts I've ever made!  Since a lot of people chipped in, I think it deserves a followup, so I can clear up some misconceptions, and talk some more about the prejudice against comics.

I was very frustrated when I wrote the post, partly due to the recalled experience being brought up again, and also due to me still being quite sick and needing something to ramble about.  Because of that, I think I was a bit unclear in my motive.  My post wasn't trying to debate what art is.</strong> I don't believe anyone has the authority to tell someone else what 'art' is, because it is so open to interpretation.  Also, I was very vague in my wording when describing "Modern Art", which is quite a general term.  I do not know the proper name for the kind of art I was trying to describe is, but I think everyone knew exactly what I was talking about.  If there is a more specific term, please let me know. (No sarcastic replies, to this, lol.)

I don't hate this type of artwork.  And I do believe I can enjoy the thoughts behind them sometimes, upon explanation.  For example, Jackson Pollock created his infamous splattered canvases as a spiritual outlet to combat his alcoholism.  I can understand that.  I even find some visual appeal in his artwork.  But regardless, it doesn't speak to me.

But I prefer artwork that gives me SOMETHING to work with in order to make my own explanations, rather than something so baffling you could never hope to understand what the artist's real meaning was.  When I see a movie that really made me think about something, or read a comic that really touched me or made me laugh- I tell my friends about it, so they can experience the art with me.  I don't think the type of modern art I was referring to does this for most people.  And if I am wrong- so much the better for the people people who DO get moved by it in that way. I'm sure they are leading far more enriched lives than I am if they are so easily amazed.

I think my biggest qualm with modern art is the elitism that it seems to spawn.  As a whole, society looks down on artists.  But we are the masters of degrading each other.  It may just be my experience (and admittedly, the aforementioned modern art professor didn't help my opinion here) but the types of artists who create these pee-jars are so hopped up on their own brilliance, they snub anything that isn't as "subversive" as their own work.  In other words, any artwork which appears to have actual craft and an actual message.  Also, I have major issues with such artists who will justify anything in the name of their "art", including killing animals, shooting people, and other "performances" which, under normal circumstances, would get one put in jail or a nuthouse.

In my previous modern art rant, someone brought up the example of symbolism and references to biblical stories/myths in classical art, likening them to the hidden meanings in modern art.  I would like to point out a slight difference here. Symbolism, mythology, and religious imagery are all things you can research and recognize in artwork. Classical art is admirable in so many ways- even a completely uneducated person (which most people were, back then) could appreciate the craft and the beauty of it. And for one who recognizes the subtle imagery, classical works become like a puzzle to piece together.  Of course, there are some things you might need extra explanation to appreciate- for example, did you know that in Michelangelo's famous "Creation of Adam", God and the angels are shaped perfectly into the form of a human brain?  You could question this further- was Michelangelo implying that God was the source of all thought and knowledge?  Or perhaps- and this would have been admittedly quite ballsy of him, considering the Pope commissioned the piece- was he saying that God was created inside the human brain?

What I think I love most of all about Classical art is the storytelling element, which I keep coming back to. Most religious artwork was (and still is) created with the purpose of education on the stories of that religion, particularly in times and places where the majority of people cannot read or write. Around the world and throughout history, images have been used to tell stories- from Egyptian hieroglyphs to monumental Christian triptychs. Wait a second- using sequential images to tell a story? Thank kinda sounds like... COMICS!  Which brings me to my second topic...

The Prejudice against Comics
There are people who say comics are not art, which in my mind is absolutely ridiculous.  The people who say that base their opinions on social bias associated with the history of comics and the people who read them.  Comic fans are seen as immature geeks who need to get out of their mother's basement and get a real job.  Comic artists aren't considered "real" artists because the work they produce is targeted at these "losers."  It's very upsetting, but the fact is that the mainstream Western world still considers comics to be only for children.

Typical comic book geek.

When I lived in the US, but also when I lived in Austria, it was not uncommon for people to scoff at my career choice.  "That's cute. When are you going to get a real job?"  "Why don't you do some "real" art instead of stuff for kids?" These are the sorts of comments that one becomes used to hearing.  But it never becomes any less frustrating.   I think my biggest disappointment came in highschool, when I was in a class called "Theory of Knowledge", which was required for all students to take.  It was basically a philosophy class, and for the most part I really enjoyed it.  We had debates and discussions on ethics, and subjective topics such as "What is Art?"  For this particular topic we were requested to bring to class something we considered "art."

I bought a book of Rose of Versailles by Ryoko Ikeda, the world-famous manga which springboarded the shoujo-manga genre in the 70's.  I admire it for the artwork, in which Ryoko Ikeda invented many of the now cliche shoujo graphic conventions, such as "romance bubbles," dramatic stage lighting, sparkling eyes and tears, and abstract, "emotional" backgrounds used to accentuate drama.  I also admire all of her research into the French Revolution, and the time it took her to finish the comic- the entire manga set is thicker than a dictionary- and she did it all on her own.  The story had a massive cultural impact, spawning many more "princely girl" series, including the famous "Revolutionary Girl Utena,", and even went on to become a live-action film and several Takarazuka  musicals.

What was my teacher's reaction?  He ridiculed me in front of the class.  After all his talk about how art was subjective and impossible to define, he made fun of me for bringing a "comic book," and made no effort to shut up the rest of the class when they followed his example.  I was so hurt and angry, I was unable to formulate a proper defense for my choice.  Now, after 5 years of studying all types of comics and art, I feel a little more prepared to defend comics.

Belgium and France are exceptions, I've noticed.  People here really respect comic artists, particularly in Belgium, where they are extremely proud of their famous Belgian comic artists, such as Herge (Tintin) and Peyo (Smurfs.).  Even people I've met who say "I don't really care much about comics" end up having at least five of them in their house.  Comics are very deeply infused into the culture here!  So, maybe there is some hope for the US, as far as accepting comics goes.

[raerae]

Interesting read!

Part of the problem is, of course, that throughout much of comic's recent history, the loud forefront(superheroes, mostly) are marketed toward teenage boys. Thus, a 'child's thing' or a 'toy' or, as many girls would tell you, a 'boy's thing' laden with testosterone and T&A. However, I think it's gotten a bit better with the influx of manga...not only does it show more variety--shoujo takes up a large section of the manga section in my bookstore--but it's gotten many into comics in general that otherwise would not have(myself included).

I wonder if your teacher's reaction would have been different if you took Maus? Because that particular comic seems to be the 'exception'. Many people I know that otherwise argue that comics are not art tend to think that Maus is.

I had a color theory professor that seemed to think modern art was the ONLY art. And as several of us needed to take the class for our illustration or animation plans, well, it wasn't a pleasant 5 hours.

[Nuke]

What a terrible experience! Fortunately, I haven't had a teacher like that. In fact, in my current art class we get to write about art in history and my teacher let me choose comics as my subject.

Gotta admit, though, I stay away from superhero comics because they're boring to me. Comics like Sandman, the Walking Dead, I Kill Giants(READ THIS!), Demonology101(and many other more recent webcomics like gunnerkrigg and so forth) are the kind I prefer. Superhero comic books are just too stereotypically aimed at young males. Not that doesn't make it art, it just makes it art that I'm not horribly interested in - er, despite being a young male.

For the most part agree with your post completely. I like surrealism, abstraction, expressionism, and so forth. The elitism that surrounds modern modern art is incredibly annoying. And it's an affront to what modern art was meant to do, which was to violently knock art off its pedestal.

[KidGalactus]

It sounds to me kind of like something pretty bad and maybe even slightly traumatizing happened to you and you're looking for a bit of validation, or security.

Just make art.

Every minute you're worrying/musing about why people can't see how effing art this is is another minute you're not making art and in part validating their viewpoints by doubting your convictions.

You seem like a very nice lady and you're a good poster, I like you. But do you have anything else to talk about?

[Yamino]

@raerae:

I agree- I think manga is helping a lot of people expand their horizons as far as what comics can be about.  In Europe, we've had a lot of comic variety for a longer time, which might be why they are a lot more "acceptable" here.  I think you're right about superheroes dominating the mainstream for too long, and regrettably this has skewed people's opinions on what comics are.  They can be whatever we make them to be, and thankfully more and more people are proving that.

I wonder if your teacher's reaction would have been different if you took Maus? Because that particular comic seems to be the 'exception'. Many people I know that otherwise argue that comics are not art tend to think that Maus is.

I wouldn't call that comic the only exception, but again, I think you have a good point.  It's in the same vein as books like "Persepolis," the sort of powerful story which just happens to be in comic form.  If I had known about either of those books at the time, I would have brought them in. =)

Gotta admit, though, I stay away from superhero comics because they're boring to me. Comics like Sandman, the Walking Dead, I Kill Giants(READ THIS!), Demonology101(and many other more recent webcomics like gunnerkrigg and so forth) are the kind I prefer. Superhero comic books are just too stereotypically aimed at young males. Not that doesn't make it art, it just makes it art that I'm not horribly interested in - er, despite being a young male.

I know what you mean.  I've tried very hard to get into superhero comics, but I have yet to find one that really hooks me. I did like the artwork for X-23, but the story wasn't very gripping, and I've only ended up collecting one floppy comic of it.

It sounds to me kind of like something pretty bad and maybe even slightly traumatizing happened to you and you're looking for a bit of validation, or security.

Just make art.

Every minute you're worrying/musing about why people can't see how effing art this is is another minute you're not making art and in part validating their viewpoints by doubting your convictions.

You seem like a very nice lady and you're a good poster, I like you. But do you have anything else to talk about?

Kid, it sounds to me like you don't really have anything to add to this conversation, other than make broad psychoanalysis and patronize me for trying to start a discussion on something we all are affected by.  If you are really so bored by my posts, I really apologize. By the power vested in me, I hereby lift the cursed ban forcing you to read them against your will.

I am planning to write a third installment for my own blog, which I'll probably be cross posting here.  Feel free to completely ignore it.

[CorvusErebus]

I have to agree with Kid G on this one Yamino. It does sound like you're ranting more then starting a debate. He's got a good point too. What good does spending all this time obsessing over the definition of art do you? You don't HONESTLY think that you can convert any one to your side do you? Do you expect meaningful dialogue? If so I can summarize it as fallows.

Comics are art too! Right guys? right?

Yeah! Totally! How dare they be close minded!

Really, Your time WOULD be better spent working on your wonderful comic and not worrying what other people think.

Of course you're free to carry on, and Kid G is free to voice his opinion (Respectfully of course, as he has been.) Telling people who disagree with you or question your stance that they don't have to be here does defeat the point of open discussion. :P

[TakaComics]

The truth of the matter is, you just have to let people know how much art you actually do. They see comics as "the funny pages" or "Superman comics," and people don't break out of their views as easy. I've had to prove to members of my family that what I do is a valid profession, had to prove to art teachers that yes, this IS art, and had to prove to buyers that I'm just as much of a comic artist as the people they see in the book store every day. Yamino, you're already on the path to doing that by just working your tail off on your comics. When I had my senior show, I tacked up all the original pages on a blank wall. It took up two walls, as big as two or three "fine art" pieces. When my teachers came in to my show space, they finally realized that "This is a lot of work." Yes, a teacher said that to me during my show. The only way us comickers can prove ourselves as artists is to just do work. Some people won't respect us, and some people will call us "commercial artists." Well, let them think that, and then when R. Crumb or Hayao Miyazaki get a huge modern art show, they can go, look, and perhaps learn something.

tl;dr
1. Do work.
2. Gain respect.
3. ???
4. Profit! (unlike most fine artists :P)

[Rob]

I think Yamino may have a limitation, due to her wrist issues (injury... I guess... I'm not sure if her problem is illness or injury as I am not a medical doctor.... though I play on on TV), on how much work she can do. So if you can only do X amount of work then what else can you do to engage your community? Yamino has found something else in this topic of discussion. It has inspired a lively debate at her site as well as here. And that as they say in the theater business puts butts in the seats.

And Yamino I don't think anyone's trying to insult you or dismiss the subject. I think maybe they are just sort of pointing out the subject matter as somewhat masturbatory because at your site your fans are probably going to pretty much agree with you and over here people are pretty much going to keep their own opinion and little will be changed.

The experience of the evil art teacher is something I cannot relate to. I only had art and music classes up until the end of junior high and after that my high school was all math, English, science and so on. The only class I had that wasn't a core subject was Gym. My art teachers in junior high and elementary were all touchy feely hippie types (this was the 70's after all) and many of our art lessons were pretty out there. Like making a slide collage that married up with the lyrics of the Eagles song "Hotel California" or modeling video game characters (I made Pac-Man and a girl who liked me made me a Ghost and absolutely shamed my artistic skill).

Have I had other teachers treat me like shit and try and humiliate me? It happened. Not often because I have a really acid wit and wasn't afraid to use it but some of them tried to shame me into their idea of "my place."  

Probably the worst two experiences I can think of happened when I was in first grade. I never liked doing homework. So when I was six or so and they started handing out mimeographed worksheets for us to take home and do I just stuffed them in my desk and moved on. Once again this was the 70's. My mother was a single mom. I was the oldest and parent/teacher communication wasn't what it is today. I managed to go the better part of the school year without turning in any of this homework and my desk was getting pretty damn full.

The teacher must have known where it was because one day she started really laying in to me about where my homework was and I just started playing dumb like I always did. So she marched over to me, told me to stand up and move away and then FLIPPED my desk over and an OCEAN of undone homework came roaring out the top. Needless to say I repeated the first grade.

Another thing that happened that year, my grandmother was a really well known real estate agent and she sold the manager of the band KISS his house in the town where we lived. So at the ripe old age of 6 I was a member of the KISS ARMY and had tons of cool KISS stuff. One day I brought one of my Records (I think it was KISS ALIVE) to school (I was practically a God to the other kids by then as it was, now I was just milking it) and at some point I was holding it the wrong way and the vinyl slid out and landed on the floor with a crack and a large chunk of the record popped out.

Well I cried like a baby. Heck I was six I was a baby. And what comfort did I get from my teacher. She said something along the lines of "serves you right. If you don't want to get something like that broken you shouldn't bring it to school."

Both of these instances occurred in front of a classroom full of kids whom I was really popular with at the time. With hindsight and age it really looks to me like this teacher was jealous of my popularity and was trying to take me down a peg.

This same teacher (surprisingly young) had a stroke over the summer and when school started again (and I once again headed to the first grade) she was no longer a teacher. She was "in charge" of the teachers lunch room. Can you say Karma?

I have a few more but those are the most traumatic ones. And so you see a lot of us can probably relate with you as to what kind of damage douchebag teachers can do. But if you start couching it in terms of what is and is not art it sort of meanders off the path because the two aren't really all that related. I know from reading your blogs and your comic that you have had some wonderful art teachers in your past that were encouraging and shared many of your ideas as to the forms of art.

But we've all had those educational buttmunches who put the bright kids down or try and humiliate the unpopular kid because they get off on ruling their little kingdoms. I had one teacher that was such a wackjob he made every kid in class miss the bus on the last day of school because he was mad at us for not cleaning up the classroom well enough.

I just don't think your experiences are as related to the discussion of what is and what is not art as it is related to "mean people suck."

And the discussion of what is or what is not art is such a personal thing that for the most part people either think something they see is art when they see it or they don't and little can change that.

When I was 16 I was working at a gas station near my old junior high. I took the bus from my high school to the junior high so I could walk to work. On my walk was a commercial bus station and I used to play Zaxxon and Kung Fu there and buy my comics. So one day I'm buying comics and these two kids from my neighborhood show up with some new kid in town. They are hanging out and we talk a bit and after a couple minutes the new kid starts talking shit to me about comics. I'm older and bigger than him but he's obviously feeling his oats because he pushes every button he can find. Finally I ask him if he wants to take it outside in hopes of cowing him into shutting up and he accepts. We get outside and I think he's just going to talk some more crap and then run away. I turn towards him and he sucker punches me in the mouth.

I completely lost my shit. I beat this kid like a rented mule. I put him through a 4X4 support post, cracked a rib... basically it was a world class ass whooping.

While both of the kids who knew me from my neighborhood were cheering him on (they were brothers and one of them stole my bike while I was on vacation and I beat his ass for it so they weren't my biggest fans).

The point is that while this conflict may have come about because of society's views on comic books and in some part my own insecurities about reading them the subject matter was never "are comics art?"

The subject at hand was interpersonal conflict. New kid was trying to start some shit to make a name for himself in a new town. He tried to establish dominance over me by verbally and then physically attacking me. If I hadn't bought any comics that day you can be sure that he would have found something else to pick on me about. Ether my clothes would be old and poor (they were) or my haircut would have been funny (it was) and so on. Or maybe he would have insulted my family; the two kids from my neighborhood certainly knew enough about us.

In the end he failed to make me feel ashamed for reading comics because I have never cared what other people think about what I do (and I read them to this day) or appreciate and the only reputation he made for himself was as a really good punching bag.

But the whole thing was never about art. It was about mean people sucking. And mean people will always find something to give you crap about. Because art is so precious to you it is an obvious and easy target, just like the comics in my hand were that day.

[Yamino]

I have no problem with people disagreeing with me.  That is the whole point of a discussion, and despite what you might think, a lot of my readers did NOT know about the prejudice against comics.  It's true that I have a lot of readers who are or aspire to be comic artists themselves, but I also have readers that are 40 year old mothers, Australian criminal investigators, or Belgians- not just people directly affected by the bias.  I've been getting a lot of emails and comments about it from all different perspectives, and I really like getting that sort of feedback on a topic.  People HAVE disagreed with me, and brought up very good points about why they do.  Therefore, I don't think it's "masturbatory," Rob.

Also, I have not tried to lump together "this person sucks" with "this kind of art sucks".  I did mention it was probably coloring my stance on it for a while, but since talking to my readers (and some friends who make modern art) I've changed my mind about some things, which I why i want to make another post.

Sorry if I got a little snippy, but it really gets on my nerves when people tell me "You should just stop talking about this."  We need to be vocal about defending ourselves, so people KNOW there is an issue. That's the only way we can start changing people's minds about comics being a legitimate art.  Maybe some comic artists don't care, or eve like the idea of being part of a persecuted group, but I don't.  I would like the same respect a someone with a "real" job.  I don't think I'll cross post my next followup after all, if everyone thinks the topic is pointless to discuss.

This is a forum.  About comics.  If a discussion on comic's role in society is not valuable here, what is?

[Rob]

Hold on now let's not go for the torches and pitchforks here.

You know I've been a fan of yours and respected you and your comic since the day you launched. Please try and remember this is a discussion and not get caught up in the inequities of text based communication. If you took some part of my post as something more than my opinion than I apologize. It was not a personal attack.

I realize now that you do have something more of an international audience than most folks and that didn't occur to me before. So talking about it with them I guess has some informational use and so on that front you have changed my mind. I can see that.

But I personally don't think there is an issue. I don't care if other people think I should be respected for what I do or not. I don't even care if they think what I've created is art or not. I do it because I want to, I do it because I'm compelled to and I do it because I think it might make me some money... doing something I enjoy.

So it isn't an issue for me. Obviously you feel otherwise.

But I don't think you should censor yourself here (IE not crosspost your thoughts) just because I and a couple other people don't see things from your perspective. Either way I'll read it because I read all your blog posts.

[Yamino]

I know you weren't attacking, Rob, and I do appreciate the point you're making about doing comics for your own sake and disregarding the haters.  I agree that it's a good mentality to have, because if we only listened to the voice of negativity, none of us would be creating right now.  

But for me, being a comic artist is part of my identity, and whenever people judge based on something that is an integral part of who I am- my sexual orientation, my skin color, or my artistic inclinations- that bothers me.  Of course I could just let is slide off, but I would rather make an attempt to discuss it and get other people talking about it, because that's where changes in attitude start.  Regardless of what people think, I have been and will continue doing comics.  So I do agree with you. =)

There are so many things I want to discuss when it comes to bias in comics, too... not just the bias society has against us, but the biases we hold against each other.  I can't tell you how many publishers have brushed me off because my work is "too manga" or "not manga enough" etc.  I have many friends who have had the same problem.  Within our own community we attempt to compartmentalize and label and I really think it is harming the industry.  I don't see many people questioning this practice, which is why I feel I have to take it upon myself to do so publicly.  I thought this forum would be a good place to do so.  I'm not looking for a round of "Hear hear!"  I genuinely want to start a discussion on something which I think affects all of us.

Thanks for reading the blogs, by the way, I appreciate it. =)

[Rob]

Publishers. Yeah well. I think there is a real problem with publishers but to be honest when it comes to artists they kinda do it to themselves.

When I was at NY Comic Con last year I met all these amazing artists. Some inkers and colorists and illustrators had been doing art for years and years. They had booths there to show off their art and they were all very good at what they did.

I spent a lot of time talking to these kinds of folks and trying to sell them on the idea of webcomics. In some cases I was like "come draw a comic on my site... if you update once a week I'll host it for free and design the site for you for free" along with other offers I made. In every instance I would say "'and if you don't want to join up with me for God's sake get on line and set up something on your own. Your art is great and it deserves to be seen."

Not a single one took me up on my offer and to my knowledge none have created anything on their own. Most of them didn't even have websites.

Yet these same people stood in line for hours with a portfolio of slaved over pinups of Spider Man or The Green Lantern just so that Marvel or Image or DC could glance at them, thank them for their time and dismiss them.

I talked to one girl whose art was amazing after her meeting with Marvel and she was still like "ok I guess I'll just have to work harder for next year" and still had no interest in creating something of her own.

Every time I talked to these kinds of people who are so wrapped up in seeking some kind of validation or approval of their work I want to grab them and shake them and say "HEY! Have some self respect for Pete's sake. If your work is good you can find your own audience and succeed on your own terms."

I mean, here we are living in a time when guys like Scott Kurtz and Tatuya Ishida; webcomics creators, have contracts with Image so that Image can publish their individually created and owned intellectual property. Regular comics are boring. After 39 years on this Earth I'm tired of my favorite superhero dying and then coming back to life to fight a bad guy he supposedly killed but has now been brought back to life. The only thing that DC, Marvel and Image do these days is stomp the shit out of any kind of originality. COmics Publications have a tiny reach. The internet is HUGE. We don't need them. They need us.

Me I'm not much of an artist. So I guess I can't relate to having so much of my self esteem tied up in something I've drawn. I write. And the writing I do I always accept as being open to taste. My family for the most part has no interest in looking at anything I've created. It just isn't really their bag. Even my mother who is a voracious reader would probably not like much of what I write beyond the novelty of "oh my son wrote this." I accept this.

But then I'm not out to change the world. I'll be happy if I put some change in my pocket. :)

[Yamino]

I also can't imagine why some people want to work for companies like Marvel and DC which don't really allow you to create your own characters and stories.  But then again, I am an artist AND a writer, and very much involved in every aspect of my comics- from the original conception, the entire production, to the finished comic- not to mention creating the site, maintaining my form and community, merch, connecting with other webcomickers, etc.  It's a totally different type of person who would want to work as part of a well-oiled machine such as those Superhero comic giants, which is why your pitch probably sounded like a nightmare to those artists.  They aren't in it to be original, they want to be part of a team and work with people they have respected and been inspired by.   I don't think there's anything wrong with that- it's just not for me.  I want to do my own thing.

You say those artists trying to work for Marvel and DC are looking for self-validation, and that you aren't.  But isn't that the whole point of doing something on your own?  You are looking for self-validation, just in a different way.  I don't think anyone can live without it.  I want more than just money for my art. (I never went into this business expecting to get rich off of it.)  First and foremost, I want to entertain.  I want people to laugh and feel their day is a little brighter.  I want to be a mentor to those who want to do what I'm doing.  But perhaps the most subtle item on my agenda is to expose ideas and make people ask questions.  If I achieve these goals, that will be my validation.

I think you and Kid are misinterpreting my need to educate people on the validity of comics as some kind of insecurity on my part.  I'm very secure in my own opinions on the validity of what I'm doing.  But that's not enough for me.  There are people out there struggling to make comics and follow their dreams because they are being told that what they are doing is not worth it.  And that's unacceptable to me.  I'm already doing quite well on my own- but I want to help other people who are still being brought down by biases against their chosen medium.  Believe me- if I was struggling with inner insecurities about what I was doing, I wouldn't have the drive to be where I am now. Until I started doing my own thing, it felt like I was facing a big world of "No."  But it was because I believed so strongly in what I was doing that I managed to get this far.  And I want to help others do the same.

[raerae]

I don't think I could stand doing Marvel or DC comics. I want to create something new, not a reboot of a series.

Part of it has to do with self-publishing stigma, I suppose. One webcomic artist that frequents another forum I go to still get the whole 'When are you getting a real job?' when her comics already pay all her bills.

[TakaComics]

Yamino and raerae:
I'll say this over and over again: The people in Marvel and DC aren't looking for validation for the most part. They are talented enough to get that anywhere. People who truly want to work for Marvel or DC, especially writers, want to contribute to the world they love. Maybe it's what got them doing comics, or maybe it's just the fun of coming at a character from another direction. Either way, the beauty of a Marvel or DC is the fact that you have to use someone else's characters. The secret hope is that their hero or villain that they create, or the plot point they write, will become a pivotal moment for the world, especially when you're on event stories. And even if you're the penciller, you still made a difference in that character. Iron Man's suit for the movie was all because of one artist changing it for the book. Now it's a standard. Originality is what changes books, and improves them. And eventually, you'll get to do something amazing and different.