To shake or not to shake

[JGray]

We do live in a society that undervalues sickness. I've read that a little more precaution on our parts (sneezing into our elbows, not out hands. Taking a day off from work when we're sick instead of going in and spreading the germs around. That sort of thing) would actually increase our productivity instead of decrease it because we'd better isolate the sickness.

Seriously, I had N1H1 and food poisoning. I don't blame anyone for wanting to avoid that sort of agony. Not only is it not fun, but it renders you more or less helpless. I'm sure someone like Kurtz has a nice buffer, but wouldn't you rather he be able to work on his comic when he gets back from the con instead of work on puking his liver up through his nose?

[Gibson]

I'm not sure what "undervaluing sickness" means, but as far as I can tell, North American society is incredibly germaphobic. Everything is anti-bacterial and there are H1N1 vaccination stations in grocery stores. Every time a cool new disease with a fun acronym comes along, the media whores itself on it for weeks to let you know that you will, in fact, die from it, and then goes on to list everything that you can possibly do to prevent it. This kind of attention can't help but induce paranoia.

[raerae]

I'm pretty sure 'undervaluing sickness' means that you're often expected to work through your illness: Particularly retail and even more so in the restaurant business(which honestly doesn't make sense to me, since they're handling FOOD). I suppose it doesn't help that from school to job you have only x amount of sick days, so you need to ask yourself "Can I really afford to call off now? What if I need it later in the year?".

[JR]

I have a friend who goes to conventions all the time, and neither he nor his clients get sick all the time.  Maybe my friend has a mutant healing factor or something.  He is kinda weird.

[JGray]

Exactly what I mean. We have all this more or less useless "anti-bacterial" product out there because of the cultural "work ethic" where you're expected to work no matter what.

I have kids. Dodging illness is impossible. Schools are germ factories.

[Gibson]

Do you refuse to shake your kids' hands?

What I'm saying is that sometimes getting sick is just part of what you do. I don't think anyone here has said people should work sick, but at the same time, if there is a risk of getting sick in what you do, you do it. And I'm with JR, I've been going to cons and I've known people who go to cons for 20 years and I don't know anyone who gets sick from it on anything near a regular basis. Maybe these guys are just kinda sickly?

[TTallan]

There's sick, and there's sick. I'm not troubled by colds. But an outbreak of stomach flu? Yeah, that's pretty unpleasant. I'll be more cautious if I know I'm in the middle of that kind of thing. I won't barricade myself and my family in my house or anything, but I'll certainly be more aware of where I put my hands, and I'll be washing them regularly. It's not paranoia, just precautionary common sense. Like buckling your seatbelt, or checking your fire alarm.

[Dragon Powered]

I avoid acid. Hydrocloric and sulfuric mostly.  I know I know, but that's just how I roll.

As for censoring yourself, yeah, I do it all the time.  Everything you do these days can come back to bite you, and often does.  Companies can legally reject your application, refuse your promotion, or even fire you for your online conduct.  Even if you're a stripper who can't bring herself to tell her boyfriend, somewhere along the line someone's gonna ID you on the street, or stumble into your place of work.  Censoring yourself is probably the healthiest thing you can do.

As to shaking hands, I'm going to shake the hand that's put before me.  If I was in a conference with the President and he stuck his hand out for me to shake, you better believe I'm not going to say something stupid like "Oh no, Mr. President of the Free World, I'm not shaking hands today. Don't want to get sick."  And if in that same conference I put my hand out you can bet your bippie the President would shake it.  Common courtesy means something.  There are exceptions, of course, but I don't believe having a popular comic qualifies.

But please... hold the acid.

[NoahRodenbeek]

I remember the flu-epidemic in the aftermath of PAX last year being a pretty big deal.  It seems understandable that they would want to avoid handshaking, but, as I stated before, I have a hard time seeing how handshaking fits into the convention process to begin with.  Why is this such a big deal anyways?

My tow cents on self(or any kind of)-censorship: don't do it.  If you're holding back your opinion, what's the point of participating in an open forum?  However, it's a double-edged sword.  It's just as important for the reader to keep a thick skin as it is for the writer to remain polite.

[Rob]

It's funny but after reading the definition of the Norovirus on Wikipedia and seeing how it's transmitted; if you are going to shake hands there is almost no chance of avoiding it. Realistically speaking if you don't want to get it, no human contact and no food served and prepared by others is your best shot.

The virus is special in that hand washing is only "pretty" effective; not totally effective in killing the virus. They cite a Boyscout Jamboree in which every person infected in turn went on to infect 14 others until hand washing and cleanliness measures were enacted and even then every person infected after went on to infect another 2 people anyway.

When it comes to guys like Gabe and Tycho and Scott they undoubtedly shake a lot more hands... assuming they are shaking hands, than the average con exhibitor and loads more than the average con attendee. And if you consider every handshake a pull on the slot machine of gastroenteritis your odds of getting sick are pretty much certain.

I mean, the best way not to get sick is to not stick your fingers in your mouth, nose, eyes, in some cases ears or rub them in your backside or hoo ha (or hoo hoo depending on your gender) at all or if you must don't do it without a very thorough hand washing to try and help the odds. But who has that kind of self discipline?

The thing is; I see this as pretty much the price we pay for exhibiting at cons. Like J I have two little kids in the house and they used to get me sick all the time (I think I've developed some stronger immunities as the last several months I've been illness free where as when I first moved in I rarely went more than 2 weeks without some new virus replacing the old). There is very little chance of avoiding illness in certain environments. I'm not suggesting you embrace the madness and gorge yourself on local shellfish whilst glomping fans picking your nose but going the other way and avoiding all contact isn't the way to go either.

And honestly this virus isn't the black plague or aids or something. It isn't that serious. As long as you stay hydrated you should be fine unless you have an immunodeficient disease, are a very little baby or a very old person. As someone who recently had food poisoning (about 14 months ago) so bad it almost killed me I can tell you that I got the flu a few months ago and I had to vomit a few times, I was a little achy and it was gone in 48 hours and I actually scoffed at it. I was all like "that's all you got? 48 hours, a couple of rides on the porcelain bus and some bugle music? You should be ashamed stomach flu. And you call yourself a virus."

Was it fun? No. Do I want to do it again? No. But it didn't incapacitate me and I was in no danger.

So I guess it comes down to a personal choice. Risk getting sick and keep your fans close to you or cut off human contact and risk alienating fans. I suppose the issue here is also muddied by the way it has been presented; the idea that creator's don't owe their fans such things and the con organizers attempts to unilaterally impose restrictions on human contact.

But I think that, ultimately is what it really comes down to. When someone puts their hand out are you going to shake it and risk getting sick or are you going to wave them off and risk losing a fan? I think that is the essence of the debate.

Me? As previously stated I'll shake it every time. But who knows what would happen if I started getting really sick after every con. I might reevaluate that position. I really like the idea that it's a personal choice because it really isn't an easy call to make for everyone.

[Gibson]

I guess the big question is how much threat of disease is actually posed. Is it really common for there to be outbreaks after cons? If so, then I would agree that taking measures is wise, by more than just a handful of attendees but by the con(s) themselves. If this particular con is well-known for spreading malady, then something should be done by the conventioneers, and if it isn't, then I would say these guys are being prudent (though I still think the wiser course would be not going at all) by avoiding handshakes.

If it's a case of once or twice there was a nasty outbreak among the several jillion cons that happen each year, then I think they're being slightly unreasonable. This seems like it's more the scenario than the latter, but I have no data to support either other than this is the first time I've heard of cons being a giant outbreak cloud. Does anyone have real information on how often this has been a problem in the past?

[Rob]

Why is this such a big deal anyways?

It takes two to tango Noah so it really isn't important how you feel about handshakes. It's important to your business and fanbase and reputation how the people whose handshakes you are refusing feel. You have no doubt read that quite a lot of us feel like a handshake is a moral obligation in polite society. That's just polite society. Add to it that someone has come a long distance at some significant expense to see you and support your work and they may REALLY be expecting a handshake, hug or some other show of appreciation or consideration.

So the question you have to ask yourself Noah isn't are handshakes important to me but are they important to my fans and am I willing to risk their favor by refusing such acts?

As for self censorship.

I'm ashamed to admit it but of the possible reasons I listed for why I've become more self censored lately the reason is undoubtedly this community. Every time I say something dumb or do something someone doesn't agree with I get messages telling me how I should behave and subtle threats to leave the site if I don't step in line. This is one of the main reasons I didn't want to be "the guy" at this site. I wanted the place to run itself for the most part... so I could just be me. Knuckleheaded old me.

Some background here. I don't know why but my family loves to argue. A lifetime of that and I've gotten very very good at it. There was a time I was seriously considering becoming a litigation lawyer. I have two pre-law degrees (an A.S. and a B.S.) and during my Mock Trial course I eviscerated my competition so thoroughly that after delaying until the end of class (45 minutes of requests for continuance and digging through papers) they came back two weeks later and still had nothing to challenge my strategy. My client got off a murder charge with some community service. (Please remember this was a fake trial)

So when I say I'm not afraid to get down in the muck with the pigs I really mean it. I have a lifetime of "being right" and "making my point" that instinctively suggests that I oppose viewpoints I disagree with and provide insightful and relevant evidence to support my views.

My problem is, I tend to see things as very black and white. I believe in the spirit of the law as much as I do the letter. And that my friends makes me a great debater but a shitty lawyer.

For me, debate, discourse, argument... these are the paths to enlightenment, to understanding and I've often felt that understanding your fellow man is a seriously lofty goal. Because love in general is the quest to understand and be understood. And if we all understood each other we would probably get along much better.

So when I see someone making an intelligent, coherent, cogent argument; even on the internet... man that's like honey for my bee. Especially if I disagree. I don't know if any of you have ever really changed someone's mind on a complex subject.... it isn't as common as it sounds. To take someone firmly set in an idea and through discourse provide them with evidence and examples of opposing viewpoints until you see that light go on and understanding is reached.

As many arguments as I've had... and there have been many; it's only happened to me a few times. But when it does it really is quite magical.

And I've had my own mind changed once or twice too. I like to think, because I defend my own viewpoints so strongly that I must try to be extra open minded to other ideas. So even when I'm sure about something I'll listen because you never know. If you don't listen you aren't really having an argument or debate. You are preaching. And preaching is a one way street.

No I don't go after every chowderhead with a crackpot agenda on the internet. Who has that kind of time? But when I see someone say something on a subject that I am passionate about that I am very strongly opposed to both in presentation and implementation the pull to jump head first into that fray and challenge the idea is tough to quantify.

Like say for example someone says that they aren't shaking anyone's hand at a convention because they don't want to get sick and who do the fans think they are giving them grief about it anyway because we don't owe them squat.

And yes since one of the most potent weapons on the web is snark I am certified expert marksmanship in it's use and not afraid to deploy if necessary. But for me, that sort of nonsense is just an opening salvo to a bigger debate. Man cannot argue with snark alone (that's catchy... I'll have to remember that).

So at a time in my life where I am used to making few apologies I do tend to censor myself because I want all of you to come here and bring your friends and share your knowledge with me and others without having to worry about people pointing out that this community is the one "run by that douchebag everyone hates."

So I don't get to be "me turned up to 11" all the time. I've already learned so much from all of you in this short time that I consider it a fair tradeoff. Who says old dogs can't learn new tricks?

[NoahRodenbeek]

Assuming these guys have done a few cons between this and last year's PAX, I'd say this recent no-handshake thing falls into the context of last year's PAX epidemic and could only be judged that way.  See Friday's Penny-Arcade "PAXination".  They're also suggesting a ban on dripping weeping pustules into your urethra, as well as citing the Klingon greeting's potential to further protect your body's core.  I'm just saying, this is how seriously they're taking it.

I'm going to a book signing for Penny-Arcade Volume 11 next week, and I fully intend to fist-bump them both... on their fists.

Censorship:

I totally get and respect your responsibilities as the admin.  I'm sorry if you've been getting flack for stating your opinion.  I would like to submit my own plea for you to speak your mind openly.  I love arguing too, as reclusive artist we probably all do.  As long as we keep things above the belt there's no reason we shouldn't be able to express ourselves openly and keep these boards thriving.

I do hereby swear to not take responses to my posts personally, and humbly ask you guys to do the same.  We're nothing if not brothers.  And sisters, of course.

[JGray]

For some reason this all reminds me of the Wiggles. The kid's music group from Australia. They developed this whole hand wiggle thing so they'd never have to touch kids. Not only to avoid illness but also because they were formed in the middle of a massive awareness of "stranger danger" and they wanted to avoid any accusations of impropriety.

So, of course, people have decided they're gay instead.

[Rob]

I'm going to a book signing for Penny-Arcade Volume 11 next week, and I fully intend to fist-bump them both... on their fists.

I would definitely like to know if they leave you hanging or not.  :-\