To shake or not to shake

[Gibson]

I am absolutely, totally cool with someone who doesn't want to shake hands with people, for whatever reason they want. When I meet someone and I reach for their hand (which I do) and they tell me they're sick or have dirty hands or whatever, it's cool. If they're some weirdo germaphobe, and they tell me they don't want to catch my cooties, I'm gonna think they're weird (as are most people going to think) but it's fine. If you're one of these people, though, then putting yourself in a situation where a natural reaction from a lot of people is going to be the urge to shake hands and then staunchly refusing to do so, then you're acting like a bit of a dick. I have to agree that, if the guy had a sign and a t-shirt (did he actually?) and put it on his blog (and I don't give a rat's ass if he had it on his blog, I wouldn't have read it even if I read his comic) then he's making it a big deal himself as well.

And I can't stress enough how idiotic it is for someone to worry about shaking hands but still touch their money. Money is like a plague rag at the best of times, but if you think someone has hand herpes, they're surely going to pass it along in the bills.

[Alectric]

The question for me has always been is it worth it: is it worth alienating fans who might be offended by the "no shake" policy on the off chance it will keep you healthy? And at the same time is it worth it to keep shaking hands if you get knocked on your arse for a week every time you go to a convention? I am trying to look at both sides of the issue... even if I personally feel not shaking hands is something I would never do.

I don't think I really understand how this is a "question for you."  You've made it very clear that for you, it would be absolutely NOT worth it to refuse shaking hands for any reason, whereas others who decided to refuse handshakes obviously feel that it IS worth it.  I don't get what there is to talk about beyond that.  If by "I am trying to look at both sides of the issue" you mean that you might possibly be swayed (though I don't get that impression) then maybe you should be including some of the people who refused to shake hands in this discussion.  And you're certainly not going to convince them of anything yourself if you don't include them in the discussion.  Basically everyone is pretty much set in their opinion, so what is this thread still going so strongly for?

But if you look at it from a more macro/sociological perspective it is certainly something worth considering if for example you were running a community forum for people involved in the webcomic business who are looking to maximize returns at conventions where they interact with large groups of the public.

Forgive me but I haven't gotten the impression than anyone was particularly looking for advice on the matter, and no one seems genuinely undecided as to how they would go about attending a con.

I think the handshake is more prevalent among men than women, so it wouldn't have the same meaning for you Ran. I'm not sure if there's really an equivalent for women (I know women shake hands, but it's different and not as ingrained).

Just for the record, I'm a guy and I don't give a flying spitoon whether someone shakes my hand or not, and I almost never initiate it.  I'm not a terribly confident person, so if someone didn't want to shake my hand, especially if they gave a valid reason like not wanting to get sick, I wouldn't feel hurt so much as foolish for not anticipating such a thing, because I guess I just hold them in higher regard than I do myself.  And let me tell you, if this happened with someone I greatly admire, such as the creator of a webcomic I love, I wouldn't dare feel anything resembling indignancy, just shame or worry that I might have offended this person I respect so much.  I would hold their desire not to shake hands so much higher than any feable desire I had to shake, in an "I'm not worthy" sort of way.  Now, I've never actually attended a con before, but I imagine a lot of fans feel very similarly if this comic is any indication.

[Rob]

I don't think I really understand how this is a "question for you."  You've made it very clear that for you, it would be absolutely NOT worth it to refuse shaking hands for any reason, whereas others who decided to refuse handshakes obviously feel that it IS worth it.  I don't get what there is to talk about beyond that.  If by "I am trying to look at both sides of the issue" you mean that you might possibly be swayed (though I don't get that impression) then maybe you should be including some of the people who refused to shake hands in this discussion.  And you're certainly not going to convince them of anything yourself if you don't include them in the discussion.  Basically everyone is pretty much set in their opinion, so what is this thread still going so strongly for?

You're absolutely right in that I have made up my mind. But I also am trying to offer decent advice to folks here at the site... you know... this site where people come to share knowledge and advice about webcomics?

And if I could definitively say "yes you should shake hands because polled fans said they get offended when you don't and you don't want to lose customers"

OR

"No you don't have to shake hands. Nobody seems to really care all that much and the few people who do are not worth the risk of getting sick"

Then that would be some good information for webcomicers, planning on attending a convention to have. Especially if it is a convention like PAX that is thinking of banning touching.

And I'm not convinced that no one's mind can be changed here. If the poll shows that loads of people are bothered when an artist refuses human contact then people might think differently about the subject. Conversely, if no one seems to give a rats behind then I would be much more inclined to not think poorly about people who do refuse handshakes. Because right now my opinion of the people who practice this behavior is certainly colored by their decision. And if it really sin't important to the overwhelming majority of people I would like to know. It is also my opinion that others would like to know as well.

Forgive me but I haven't gotten the impression than anyone was particularly looking for advice on the matter, and no one seems genuinely undecided as to how they would go about attending a con.

Are you looking to speak for everyone in this subject? Not just everyone who is reading this thread but also everyone who will ever read this thread? Are you sure no one cares? And if you don't, why are you even reading the thread? There's a lot more to do here, no one is twisting your arm dude.

We are sort of beating a dead horse until I get some data though. So I'll get back to work on that poll.
;)

[TTallan]

Question for the pro-handshake people:

If you are buying something from me at a show, will you be expecting me to initiate a handshake? Will you be offended in some way if I don't? (I will not refuse one offered, but I do not habitually shake hands with people.)

[Rob]

Question for the pro-handshake people:

If you are buying something from me at a show, will you be expecting me to initiate a handshake? Will you be offended in some way if I don't? (I will not refuse one offered, but I do not habitually shake hands with people.)

This is going to sound lame but when it feels right it just sort of happens. There comes a moment in a transaction or a conversation where there is an end or an introduction and that moment comes and my arm goes out. It's on autopilot. So if I'm expecting one, unless I know you aren't into it (signs, T-Shirts, warning "no touch" blogs) my hand will go seeking it.

It doesn't really matter who initiates although with guys that can sometimes be a power play (and with some women I guess but those women are scary and usually a bit "corporate") if it's meant to be someone will stick their hand out. And if it doesn't happen it just wasn't meant to.

So my short answer is no.I don't expect anyone to initiate a handshake ever. They sort of naturally occur. And if one doesn't happen I doubt I give it much thought. It just didn't happen.  ;)

[LegendWoodsman]

Question for the pro-handshake people:

If you are buying something from me at a show, will you be expecting me to initiate a handshake? Will you be offended in some way if I don't? (I will not refuse one offered, but I do not habitually shake hands with people.)

No, I don't keep track of who initiates. If a hand is offered, I will accept it... if I offer my hand, I hope it will be accepted in kind.

Perhaps the horse we are currently beating is indeed dead (figuratively). Poll results may be illuminating, however, I do suspect that results will vary according to the specific audience:
eg) Hulk Hogan fans may want handshakes whereas Madonna fans don't. If both the Hulkster and Madonna begin refusing handshakes, the Hulk will deal with a larger backlash from his fans.

I think that the theme being discussed is important but the specific topic of 'handshakes' may have been exhausted. I can think of an analogous example that deals with the same theme. Please excuse me if this is off topic but I'll do my best to present it in a similar light:

A company decides to tighten the financial belt and transmits an e-mail to their staff, "Beginning May 1, we will be promoting our green policy by no longer providing paper cups for the coffee maker. Please provide your own mug and help reduce our carbon footprint. Thank you, - the management"
The staff's sentiment toward this announcement varies:
a)      I already bring my own mug/I don't drink coffee/I buy coffee from elsewhere (no effect)
b)       I should be more environmentally friendly (positive effect)
c)      I don't want to provide my own mug (negative effect)
In this example, you will play the part of management – and you have received negative feedback from  group c). You understand that this decision is affecting group c)'s morale and that your employees are also consumers of your product.

Do you repeal the decision to no longer provide paper cups?

By providing X (handshakes/paper cups/airplane seats for larger people), your consumer base was happy (or not unhappy).
By withholding X, a percentage of your consumer base was negatively affected.
Is the risk of negatively affecting a percentage of your consumer base worth the benefit of withholding X?

I know that my marketing reference book warns against this type of scenario.

People are funny in that their response can change depending on what X is. If you find handshakes to be important but paper cups unimportant, you could side in favour of one and not the other... but I'd like to stress that the scenario is more for the formula than the specific item of handshakes or paper cups.

[Gibson]

I'm never offended if someone doesn't initiate a handshake. I think that would be expecting too much. If I initiate and it was refused, I would imagine I'd be, let's say insulted rather than offended. I can say that I've never had someone refuse a handshake, though.

[Alectric]

Maybe the company should consider supplying a complimentary mug for its employees.  That way, for a relatively small cost, it could accomplish both reducing its carbon footprint and keeping its employees satisfied.

Actually wait, it says they want to both "tighten their financial belt" and promote their "green policy," so...which is it really?  Even if it's more about the cost, supplying mugs initially would still save money long term.

[LegendWoodsman]

Maybe the company should consider supplying a complimentary mug for its employees.  That way, for a relatively small cost, it could accomplish both reducing its carbon footprint and keeping its employees satisfied.

I believe we brainstormed alternatives to the handshake too. That's awesome.

Actually wait, it says they want to both "tighten their financial belt" and promote their "green policy," so...which is it really?

Was the no handshaking rule a way to prevent yourself from getting sick or reduce the chance of spreading infection to the public? We also discussed that the way you present the idea could reduce offending the consumer base. There appears to be some parallels.

I like where you're going with this...

Is the risk of negatively affecting a percentage of your consumer base worth the benefit of withholding X?

[Gar]

Well if you withhold X, I'm just going to get it somewhere else  :P

[JGray]

I am utterly stupified. I think this is the longest conversation on these forums. It this were TWCL it would have degenerated into babble by now.

Awesome.

[wendyw]

I am utterly stupified. I think this is the longest conversation on these forums. It this were TWCL it would have degenerated into babble by now.

Awesome.

Hey! What are you suggesting, huh?
That we can't stay on topic? That we get easily distracted? That we have the collective attention spam of a goldfish?


Of course not. We'd still be completely on topic about, um, paper cups?
What was this thread about again?

[Rob]

I am utterly stupified. I think this is the longest conversation on these forums. It this were TWCL it would have degenerated into babble by now.

Awesome.

Hey! What are you suggesting, huh?
That we can't stay on topic? That we get easily distracted? That we have the collective attention spam of a goldfish?


Of course not. We'd still be completely on topic about, um, paper cups?
What was this thread about again?

LOL :D

SHINY! :o

[Travis Surber]

In my opinion not shaking hands with a fan,if they want to,makes you come across as smug and superior.In short if you don't shake hands your a dick,and if you say you don't shake hands because your afraid of germs you come across as obsessive compulsive.Posting that your usually sick for weeks after a con makes you seem like a huge wussy as well.I'm a fan and that brief contact with a creator or actor or whoever that I want to meet leaves a lasting impression.I shook hands with Peter Mayhew at a convention once and still talk about it.As a creator it's the same feeling knowing that I've touched someone on some level that they want that contact with me.It's 2 seconds and it's worth the risk.
Anyone attending heroescon in Charlotte,I'll be the guy with the Hainted Holler T-shirt,and anyone attending Interventioncon in Rockville I'm a special guest and I'll shake anyone's hand that want's it.Now if you'll excuse me I need to see where I can get some "Travis Surber shook MY hand you jerk" stickers made

[Rob]

Thanks Travis. Passionate response. I hope you took the survey.  ;)