Transcontinental deal for webcomics.com members!

[ran]

There are a few members here who aren't webcomics.com members who I think could probably really benefit from this news, so I'll quote the public part of the article here, and discuss it and the parts non-members can't see afterwards.

Transcontinental is going to become the official offset printer of Webcomics.com, offering all members a 10% discount on printing.

Since Transcontinental is an offset printer -- not print-on-demand -- the print runs are counted by the hundreds. This discount is going to return the price of an annual subscription several times over.

This is going to be a huge benefit to our members who are already established webcartoonists, handling book printing in bulk orders.

And it's going to be a considerable boost for our members who are on the verge of making the move from print-on-demand printing to offset printing (where the quality is higher, the unit-cost is lower, and the potential profits are greater).

Transcontinental is a leader is the printing of high-quality graphic novels and other comics-formatted publications, and Webcomics.com is thrilled to be working with them in this capacity.

So for anyone not sure why offset printing is better than print-on-demand, here it is:

• High quality from a good printer - POD companies are hit and miss in terms of quality.
• Low unit cost if printing in large quantity - This is especially true if your comic is full colour. When you get into colour POD, depending on the size of the books and page count in full colour, your cost per unit just keeps on going up. While it's more expensive than B&W from an offset printer, the more you order, the cheaper each book can be sold for. If you want to sell 'artist' editions where you put a sketch in the book for extra, you can price it reasonably well enough to be worth your time.
• Tremendous flexibility in cut size, paper weight and color-- for people with oddly shaped comics, this is fantastic. POD doesn't offer a lot of options unless your comic is in graphic novel format. You can also option some really nice covers or dust jackets of you're doing hardcover with some interesting finishes that aren't really available to POD printing.
• While the initial investment is high (depending on the amount of books you order and all of your printing options, your first run might be anywhere between $2000 and $5000), if you're willing to run pre-orders in advance, your printing and shipping costs are pretty much paid for, AND, you'll often be able to afford way more copies than you actually need. This means that once you do your initial quote, discount applied, and they give you a quote for a small, medium and large run, you can adjust your prices for the pre-order to make sure that you will at least be able to afford the minimum. On top of that, if you're planning to sell them in your online store or at conventions, you don't have to pay out your nose for 20 copies every time from a POD site.

So, for example, you ordered 1,000 copies for $2,749, (that's $2.75 cost per book) based on your mid-sized quote. The 10% discount would have saved you almost $275 (now $2.47 cost per book). That may not seem like a huge amount, but when you consider the fact that paying an extra $0.28 cents on every book adds up to $275, it's a really nice break. And for those of you going 'but that means I'd have to shell out $30 to be a member of webcomics.com every year, that's a 900% return on the Webcomics.com annual subscription. It would take 9 yeas of subscribing to webcomics.com to ever amount to that much. That's pretty awesome, and when we're talking about an investment that requires hundreds, if not thousands of dollars per run, every penny counts.

Not to mention, I remember looking at POD stuff when I was working on a project years ago because I was interested in making about 20 copies and selling them at a con. I remember the cost for $25 books being something absolutely ridiculous, and I remember being unwilling to pay it because it made me wonder how much I'd have to charge for them if I even wanted a small profit, and when I did the math, it really wasn't worth it.

So yeah, discuss--what's your take on POD vs offset? How does this deal sound to you? Like? Dislike? Interested? Uninterested? Indifferent? I'm pretty excited, which makes me want to work that much harder to get to work.

[Gibson]

Anyone who is looking to do this kind of printing should find a printer that is local to them if they can. Deal with someone you can talk to face to face and hold in your hand a sample of what they do. It's a lot easier to say your product is high quality on the internet, and everyone says their work is high quality on the internet. I can't think of a single reason save maybe for price that dealing with an online printer would be better, but the best reason I can't think of not to is that if there's a mistake, your options are a lot better if you can deal with someone in person before you even remove the printed products from the store rather than a box that's been delivered to your front door and hopefully it hasn't rained.

Taking a look at their site, I couldn't find anything even closely resembling a price list, so I can't say anything about their prices. It seems you have to contact them and they'll get back to you with a quote, though I may have been wrong. For my money, I like to look around, look at not only prices but price differences and formulate in my head what I might want to do. That's just me.

Honestly, if someone is going to go the route of online print services, you might as well go with GotPrint...but don't. Find someone local.

[ran]

All of the info about their prices, as well as contact stuff is in the 'members only' version of the thread. I'd let you know what they are, but I paid $30 for that info (and more) and I'm not particularly interested in giving it away for free.

I am very much under the impression that the rep will walk you through it and let you know if there are any problems with it. I'm also under the impression that you get a proof, but that may be incorrect. At any rate, they're located in Montreal, which isn't terribly far away from where I live. While that's all well and good for me, perhaps not so much for other people. But I get how it was hard to find any info on their printing--it's kind of a maze to get to it if you don't look for it through google, but they actually have a separate site for their printing/portfolio that I should have linked in the first place. Here.

So I don't know if that's enough for you, and it may well not be, but remember this: A quote isn't a contract, and once you get one from one company, you can absolutely shop around. If you get a quote from one place, and really really wonder what that quote would be like with the webcomics.com discount, you can always toss $30 out there and buy a year's subscription to check it out and compare that way. *shrug*

[Rob]

I think it has the potential of being a wonderful benefit for Webcomics.com users. At least that's my short answer.

My longer answer takes a bit from what Gibson already said and add's a little Smokey Robinson and the Miracles: "you better shop around."

I don't want to put a negative spin on this but I don't think it can be avoided all that much. One of the nice things about the webcomics community is their willingness to share information and great deals with each other. Any time I see someone say "this is the definitive place to use" I tend to shy away simply because things change. One of the reasons most printers don't post any kind of price guidelines is because of the fluctuation of the price of paper as a commodity. A sudden spike in the cost could radically alter the overall cost of a print run and if a price is set before the paper is bought someone will be left holding the bag.  

Among other reasons I'm sure. But the point is things change and you should always look for the best deal and be willing to share that info with your fellow webcomickers.

I don't have a problem with anyone saying "hey this is the greatest printer I know of and I got you a discount so you should totally use them" but stating that they are the "official printer" makes me wonder about things like "how will they react if someone thinks they've found a better deal and wants to discuss it on their forums with other members?"

Now... all of that said I've heard VERY GOOD THINGS about Transcontinental. Ryan Sohmer hooked me up with the info for Transcontinental about two years ago. We were talking about profit margins and I was SHOCKED... SHOCKED I SAY to find out what his margin is on the books they sell. Of course volume has a great deal to do with that. But all of that said Ryan is a source I trust and if he says they are a good company to deal with I take him at his word.

But I would still shop around. And if I could find someone local (one of the things that makes me a little reticent about Transcontinental is that they are outside the U.S. and even shipments from Canada can sometimes get held up by customs for stupid reasons) I'd even be willing to pay a little more. I'm a bit old fashioned that way in that I believe a person I can talk to and maybe even look in the eye and shake hands with is a bit more on the hook to keep me happy as a customer.

And that said.... Transcontinental's Rep Andre Martin was at New York Comic Con when Ryan gave me his info (I missed him by ten minutes). And a printer that is attending comic cons to gather business... to my mind is pretty serious about keeping comic people happy. And that goes a long way.

So... in short, "Shop around, if you can find someone local I recommend the experience as preferable to dealing with even a nice company in another country, that said Transcontinental sounds like a great company to deal with and I'm certain that Webcomics.com community members are going to be very happy with the service provided to them."

And now I will go say a little prayer that someone over there doesn't lose it that Ran reprinted something of theirs over here.  :P

;)

[Rob]

Oh and if anyone wants the contact info for Transcontinental that Ryan gave me I'll be happy to share it with you. I have the rep's name (as I mentioned) as well as all pertinent phone numbers and e-mail addresses including the guy's cell phone, fax and personal e-mail.

Just PM me and I'll send it on your way.  ;)

[ran]

My longer answer takes a bit from what Gibson already said and add's a little Smokey Robinson and the Miracles: "you better shop around."

I was simply alerting people that this deal exists for members, and in no way implying that this is the only place that everyone in the universe should be getting their books from. I cannot even currently use this deal myself, because I have approximately 8 pages of my comic done, total, which is obviously not enough for a book.

Among other reasons I'm sure. But the point is things change and you should always look for the best deal and be willing to share that info with your fellow webcomickers.

That would by why I posted this thread up here. While I obviously can't go into specifics, I just wanted people who didn't get a membership there when the paywall went up, or people who'd never heard of webcomics.com, but have enough content that this info might be useful, to know it existed.

I don't have a problem with anyone saying "hey this is the greatest printer I know of and I got you a discount so you should totally use them" but stating that they are the "official printer" makes me wonder about things like "how will they react if someone thinks they've found a better deal and wants to discuss it on their forums with other members?"

Honestly? They are a pay service. They're not going to give members the boot for discussing other options, and this is a fact. You don't need to speculate. When they say that Transcon is the 'official printer of webcomics.com', they mean that they have struck a deal with Transcon--they send more people to Transcon for business, and in turn those people get a discount if they send the proper information. That's all.

Now... all of that said I've heard VERY GOOD THINGS about Transcontinental. Ryan Sohmer hooked me up with the info for Transcontinental about two years ago. We were talking about profit margins and I was SHOCKED... SHOCKED I SAY to find out what his margin is on the books they sell. Of course volume has a great deal to do with that. But all of that said Ryan is a source I trust and if he says they are a good company to deal with I take him at his word.

I find it oddly telling that you trust Sohmer's word that they're a great company to deal with, but not Guigar's. They both sell quite a few books--what more do you want?

to my mind is pretty serious about keeping comic people happy. And that goes a long way.

That was the impression I got as well, since this was a deal that Brad struck with them at a convention not long ago, I can't remember which. This was another reason I posted it here.

And now I will go say a little prayer that someone over there doesn't lose it that Ran reprinted something of theirs over here.  :P

I cannot fathom what you mean. Here, a quote from Brad:

To say that I'm excited about this is an understatement. Please feel free to spread the word on your blogs, Twitter, Facebook, etc.

I have not posted anything that was not made available on their public post. I haven't quoted anything that was in the full article only. I have not given away any information that will allow people not on the website to get the deal, or any information on how this works. I can't imagine it being a problem, and I don't see why you should either, even jokingly.

[Rob]

Ran... just being cheeky not hostile. Of course I trust Brad's word on what is and is not a good printer. If anything I was trying to add weight to the already favorable review of Transcontinental.

If you didn't post anything that was not made public then that's fine... it's when you said you were going to discuss parts non-members cannot see is where I personally get a little nervous simply because of things that were said to me by... folks who work over there.

I will probably always be a little nervous when someone relates in any way to the content behind the paywall at Webcomics.com over here. Sorry. If Brad's ok with it then so am I.

I do very much appreciate you bringing this to everyone's attention and as I said already once today in other circumstances if you have a free $30 now seems like a very good time to join Webcomics.com.

[ran]

I said I'd discuss them, not divulge them. Not really the same thing.

Also, the link you just posted leads nowhere.  ???

At any rate, cheeky is fine....if I've known you for years and understand you to be a cheeky person. If you're trying to make it apparent that you're being cheeky, then you're not being particularly overt about it. Maybe change up your tactics a bit?

[LegendWoodsman]

This sounds like an awesome deal. I hope that "the official" doesn't also mean "the exclusive" printer for webcomics.com. It would be fantastic if the half-pixel crew manage to get deals with other printers... and hotels... AAA coverage... etc.

[ran]

This sounds like an awesome deal. I hope that "the official" doesn't also mean "the exclusive" printer for webcomics.com. It would be fantastic if the half-pixel crew manage to get deals with other printers... and hotels... AAA coverage... etc.

They managed to get a deal on tables at a con a while back, and Brad has been alluding to the fact that he has other really nice deals in the works right now, so who knows?

[Rob]

Thanks for the tip on the link I think it's fixed now.

As for my writing style I don't think you (and probably many others) are ever going to like the way I write. I know it tends to come across as confrontational even when I think I'm being playful. Unfortunately it's my voice. It's the way I write. Some people really like it; some loath it. I often find myself trying to explain it. But I doubt I could ever change it.

And I'm not sure I would even want to try. It's part of who I am and it informs the characters I create, the stories I tell and the news I pass along. I actually like it a lot despite it's shortcomings. Some people go their whole lives and never find their voice. I'm happy to have mine.

And you can argue that what I write on some forum is not comparable to "writing" but I would disagree. I'm flexing the same mental muscles. And my voice communication is completely different. Probably due to the time I can take writing, the years of practice I have into it and the state my mind is in when I do it I am far more eloquent and organized in my thinking when I write as opposed to what I say when I'm talking to someone.

I'm much quieter in person and far less inclined to throw my opinion around. Although I still do it too much.  ;D

[Gibson]

Wait...you have to pay BEFORE you can find out their prices? Seriously? That's absurd.

[JGray]

In a rare turn of events, I think Gibson and I agree on something basic here. Check with your local printers. I can almost guarantee if you bring them a price quote from an online service they'll do their very best to match it. Local printers have all sorts of advantages beyond that. They'll show you their presses, let you see samples of quality at various points in the run so you can ensure that quality is being mantained, and work with you one on one, face to face. Not to mention you save on shipping since you can cart your car over there and pick stuff up.

Also, local businesses need your support! :)

Shop around. Never go with the first quote until you know it is the best.

[ran]

Wait...you have to pay BEFORE you can find out their prices? Seriously? That's absurd.

Nooooo, that is not at all what I said. You have to pay to become a member of webcomics.com to get information on their discount. You can e-mail Transcon and get a quote, but unless you have access to that info on webcomics.com because you are a member, do will not get a quote with a 10% discount applied to it from Transcon. Just a regular quote.

Gib, I know you're not super familiar with Webcomics.com, but it was and continues to be, now that it's a yearly subscription website, the most relevant and active webcomics community/resource out there. There is no denying that, and the kind of community discussion/activities that go on there are also extremely relevant and active. They're also offering a variety of services and discounts that a lot of other places are not, tailored to fit the needs of webcomics creators. While you may not agree that paying $30 a year for anything is worth it, $30 a years was worth the access to the archives. All these new deals and discounts and the community are icing on the cake.

As for my writing style I don't think you (and probably many others) are ever going to like the way I write. I know it tends to come across as confrontational even when I think I'm being playful. Unfortunately it's my voice. It's the way I write. Some people really like it; some loath it. I often find myself trying to explain it. But I doubt I could ever change it.

Look Rob, I'm not trying to be mean, I'm really not. However, you have to think about it this way: If people on your own forum are offended, if people that you've been engaging in twitter wars with recently are offended, if the people on The Webcomic Builder are offended, that's not a coincidence--the common denominator in all of those situations is you, and the way that you have worded things. Whether you are aware of this or not is fine--it basically comes down to this:

You don't have to change the way you do things, but knowing that you come off like an abrasive and angry passive-aggressive nerd to everyone, you have to know that the only way you're not going to come off that way is to make an effort to be more specific, concise and polite, and less accidentally insulting. If you decide that you don't want to sound like a dick, then make those changes. If you're content sounding like a dick, then don't, but don't be surprised when people who would have gladly networked with you or helped you out think better of it.

[Rob]

Y'know Ran I could debate you at length about this but you're right. I'm content to be me and if that means I'm a dick then I guess I'm a dick.

I shall update my status immediately.